Turning Trauma into Triumph with Sonny Von Cleveland

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In a world where our past often becomes a heavy burden, we discover that our trauma can be a powerful tool for connection and healing. Join us as we dive deep into the words of Sonny von Cleveland, who reminds us that our stories make us credible messengers.

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If we don't own our narratives, we risk our messages of hope and healing going unheard. Are you allowing your story to hold you back, making you feel unworthy of love and success? Well, that message is getting passed on to our grandchildren.

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It's time to change that. Our children need to hear our truths, and we need to find the courage to share them.

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In this episode, we explore how giving life to our experiences, overcoming shame, and embracing authenticity, can create waves of transformation, not just for ourselves, but for generations to come. Sunny and his team at the von Cleveland foundation are on a mission to break the cycle of generational trauma, mental illness, and addiction.

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Together, they are reducing recidivism in our prison systems and ensuring our grandchildren won't be bound by the same struggles. So get ready for an inspiring conversation with one badass dude who speaks the truth and is changing lives.

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Stay tuned for when trauma leads to triumph with Sonny von Cleveland. This is an episode you won't want to miss.

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Welcome to grandparents raising grandchildren nurturing through adversity in this podcast, we will delve deep into the challenges and triumphs of grandparents raising grandchildren as we navigate the complexities of legal, financial, and emotional support. I invite you to join us on a journey of exploring thoughts, feelings, and beliefs surrounding this growing segment of our society. Drawing from real stories and expert advice, we will explore the nuances of childrearing for children who have experienced trauma, and offer valuable resources to guide you through the intricate journey of kinship care.

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We'll discuss how we can change the course of history by rewriting our grandchildren's future, all within a supportive community that understands the unique joys and struggles. This podcast was made especially for you.

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Welcome to a community where your voice is heard, your experiences are valued, and your journey is honored.

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Hi everyone, and welcome to today's episode.

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I want to take a moment to talk about something deeply personal.

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When you experience emotional and physical abuse as a child, especially from those you love and trust, it can profoundly skew your perception of the world.

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We as children find twisted ways to protect ourselves, often believing that we must be perfect for the adults we see as gods. This leads us to hide and shame, feeling unworthy of anything good.

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It's a struggle many of us face, the longing to be heard, to be loved in a world that can feel so unforgiving I'm no stranger to the struggle, just like sunny. Just like many of you.

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Listening right now, I've navigated my share of dysfunctional relationships and unhealthy coping mechanisms. I escaped prison, thankfully. However, I lost opportunities, experienced several failed marriages, and wasted years of my life, all because I didn't believe I deserved the same amazing life that others could achieve.

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Sonny wasn't as fortunate. He spent two thirds of his life behind bars due to repeating cycles of victimization from childhood, thinking that getting in trouble was his only path to safety. And it wasn't until one fateful day that he faced the harsh reality of prison life. A hell in itself. But amidst that darkness, Sonny found a spark of hope. Another inmate showed him a different perspective. And through owning his story, he transformed his life and talks about why he's helping other kids do the same. We share our stories because we have to. It's not just for our own healing, but to become credible messengers. It's about speaking the truth so that others don't have to suffer the same hell on earth we experienced. So stay with us as we dive deeper into this journey, because telling our stories is not just an act of courageous, it's a lifeline to those who need it most. I'm quite passionate about helping kids, especially to get through some of the traumatic things that they go through in their life, to help them correct their path and realize that, you know, we are not the accumulation of the trauma that we've endured and that it doesn't have to dictate our lives.

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I'm from a very small town and Michigan, and I started being abused when I was five, firstly by my uncle. And over the course of five to six years, it was five or six different men that. And the trauma is real, right? Like, I wrote this book, and when we were putting it out to press, I called my mother to try to solidify a couple of names and to let her know, like, hey, my book is going to be coming out, blah, blah, blah. And in the book, I only discuss four minutes. And she said, well, what about this guy? What about. What about the old man? What about the.

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The guy in the brown van? What about this other guy? And I'm like, wow. I suppressed so much of it that I forgot about some of the men that abused me. And that's the reality when you are abused so much that you have this ability to block these things out of your mind. So for me, at the age of seven, my brother and I, we broke into a church. And it wasn't directly correlated to the abuse that I was going through. But we were just curious kids. And we broke into a church and stole some pudding cups and some playing cards. And what happened was we got charged with felonies, and we were taken to, to court, and I got 60 days probation. And when I got put on probation, the guy that was abusing me went away.

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And, I mean, looking back on it now, it's obviously he doesn't want to abuse a kid that's in the eye of the courts. And so when I got off probation, he came back. And then a cut, you know, it started with other guys. The Tim Klinger came along, Darrell hall came along. And I have no problem calling out my abusers by name, for the record. And I developed something in my mind at that point that said, if I keep getting into trouble and get put on probation, then I protect myself from the abuse. I can take the whooping from my mom. I can handle going into the courtroom. All of a sudden, all the attentions on me. And this is a way for my young, outgoing, gregarious self to get attention, and the abuse stops.

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So I'll just keep getting into trouble. How old were you at that point? Oh, seven. Mm hmm.

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And I continued to go every year, a couple times a year, I kept getting into trouble and get putting on probation. So by time I was 1314 years old, I had ten or twelve felonies on my record already. And I think the judge had an idea of what was going, because he never put me away. I never got taken from the home. I never got put into juvie.

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My brother did, but I didn't. And so my brother got taken away when I was twelve. And that was the last time I had seen him free until I was 21.

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But then I got into drinking and, you know, smoking weed and typical things of a young, abused teenager.

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And when I was 16, I had stolen some money from a safe in my school, my high school. And the judge bound me over to adult court. He said there was nothing. He just felt like there's nothing he could do for me anymore. So he bind me over to adult court. And when I got to adult court, this judge said, I'm not even going to play with you. I'm going to set an example for all the kids around here. And he sent me to prison for.

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He gave me 48 to 60 months. It was a two to five year sentence. And I didn't even comprehend at the moment like, what was happening. I'm 60. I turned to my lawyer and said, what? What does that mean, and he said, well, he's just sent you to prison. I was like, like, prison? Prison?

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Yeah, yeah. No, yeah, he just sent you to prison. I'm like, wow.

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So my mom came to see me in the county jail and informed me that she was leaving the state with her boyfriend.

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They were gonna move out of state, and I was basically on my own. I didn't have my father. I did have my grandparents for a minute briefly, but then they died very shortly after. Couple years into this time, and I was sent off to prison, and it was really bad. Like, I had never been incarcerated before. I didn't know what I was doing. And I fall under the guidance of guys in the county jail. And the first week that I was there, I was raped by two men at knife point.

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They ran into my cell, and it was a pretty brutal experience. And then for me, something snapped in that moment where I realized, like, I'm not gonna survive this if I don't do something drastic.

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And I ended up stabbing one of the guys across the hall.

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And in that, I found this sense of power.

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Everybody, none of the people around, any other inmates saw what they did to me, but they saw what I did to him. And so all of a sudden, here come the gangs, and they're all like, dude, you are such a down guy, man. We want you to roll with us. And I became a gang banger, and I started stabbing people a lot. And that became my source of protection. It became my identity, obviously, as a kid, yearning for family and belonging. This gang represented that for me. I felt like I had friends and family, and regardless of the bad things that I had to do for the gang, it just became my life. I was in inundated with this gang mentality, and that was my life for five years. And then when I was 21, they opened the doors. They gave me $75 and three condoms and said, good luck. Wow.

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And I didn't know what to do right.

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I didn't have any upbringing or any guidance as to what it's like to be an adult. I was 16 when I went in get out when I'm 21, and now I have to find a place to live. I don't know how to fill out a rental application.

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I don't know how to apply for a driver's license. I don't know how to do any of that. So I just resolved to continue being a gangster. And I got into robbing people and robbing drug dealers and breaking into houses and stealing things, and that was my existence. I blamed the world for everything that had happened to me, I used it as justification for the wrongs that I was doing. And I just had no guidance.

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And I got two women pregnant, and I was out for 20 months. And then I got busted for 15 more felonies and sent back to prison for twelve more years. Wow.

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And at that point, I just resolved that, you know what? My life is over. I'm just. This is it. I'm going to spend my life in prison. This is who I am. And so it was much the same until 2008. My brother began having an affair with the mother of my oldest son, who her and I had gotten back together, as together as you can be when someone's incarcerated. And she was bringing, bringing my son up to see me all the time.

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And I was calling every day, and it was a little sliver of hope for me that, you know, after twelve years, I'm going to get out. We'll have a family, we'll be able to, you know, live a normal life. But then when I found out that my brother and her were having this affair, I just really lost sense of reality. I figured there's no such thing as love and loyalty in the world, and what's the point? I might as well just continue to be this person. And so there was a really violent altercation that took place, and I was put in segregation.

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And right after I got put into the cell at the end of the hall, I heard a voice yell over it, hey, white boy, come talk to me. So I cussed the guy out. You know, we're on opposite sides of the teams, as it were, in prison, and I would just cuss him up, but he constantly cut calling over, hey, white boy, come on, man. Come talk to me, man. Why are you so mad? Just don't worry. Come talk to me. So after a week, I got taken out sec, and they gave me a 60 month sentence in solitary confinement.

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So I'm gonna be in here for five years.

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And something broke. I went back to my cell, he called over again, hey, white boy. And I finally decided to talk to him, like, what? What? What do you want? And he said, why are you so angry? And I said, what kind of question is that, man? What are you, a psychologist? I'm in prison. My life sucks. I'm in the hole. You won't shut up. There's a lot of reasons why I'm angry. He said, no, no, no, man, that's. That's why you're mad.

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Mad is a surface emotion. Anger is much deeper, and it goes to your soul. And you are an angry young man.

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And I don't know, something inside of me said, you know what I mean? Obviously, I took an hour or two of anger, and then I came back and decided I was just going to talk to this man. I was just going to, you know, what? What do I have to lose?

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So I started telling him everything about my life, all the abuse that I had been through and all this. And I expected that he would be like, oh, man, that sucks, man, blah, blah, blah. But no, he was just like, so what? That happened in the past. We all go through trauma, right? Here. Read this book. He sent me a book over, and it was Viktor Frankl's. Man, search for meaning.

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And to this day, the book changed my life.

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I hold it as one of the best pieces of literature that was ever created. And it had a sentence that stuck out to me so hard that said, suffering ceases to be suffering the moment it has a purpose. And for me, reading this book of this man who built an amazing life and had a wonderful business and a beautiful family, and then one day, Nazis kick his door in and they take him and his whole family to Auschwitz. And he's watching his loved ones and his friends and people he doesn't even know be exterminated and tortured and murdered. And he, the whole time, is inspiring everybody around them, saying, when we can no longer control our environment, we have to learn to control this, right? We, they can never take this away from us. They. They can do whatever they want to this, but they can't take this away. And I'm looking at this like, wow, this man has gone through ten times worse. The stuff that I've endured in my lifetime, and he is such a good human being. I, on the other hand, went through some abuse, and I was a world class piece of trash, and it made me feel so bad about myself. But then it also, with Mallory across the hall, it gave me hope that maybe. Maybe I could do something with my life. Maybe I could turn it around. And. And Mallory helped me define that, and he helped me, sending me more books and exercises and processes of, like, forgiveness and kindness and compassion and love. And these things started to take root. And I was ultimately able to turn that five years into 19 months. And I got out of the hole in 19 months. I dedicated my life to service and helping other people and showing them how to not let the past define you, how you can get through it. That none of us choose to be victims, but every single one of us choose to remain victims, right? We don't have to stay in that mindset. And so I dedicated my life to it ever since. Wow, that's a beautiful story. It's a lot to take in, I know. Well, it's so powerful and it.

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People always ask me why I'm positive after everything that's happened to me.

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And I really don't know why, except that it's part of my nature, because I was a survivor, you know, and I was always thinking that there was something better. And then I finally realized that the problem was me and that I had to do something about me.

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And I'm still always working on that. But I wonder, how do you convey that information to a kidney that's already on that path or who that's what their whole life has been, their parents. I think, first of all, being vulnerable with youth and letting them understand that you have been there, that you've gone through, it lends that credibility and helps them to not feel alone. And I think most importantly, most kids just want to be heard, they want to talk, but at the same time, they have this wall up that prevents them from talking because they're unsure about adults or who they're talking to, right? And so they don't feel comfortable. There's no trust there. And that's the very important thing. Creating a safe and supportive environment for grandparents that are raising grandchildren, stability is crucial, right.

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Children that have experienced trauma or have come from challenging home environments, they need consistency and routine and unconditional love, and some practical steps that include establishing clear boundaries and rules, while also creating an open and trusting atmosphere where children feel safe to express themselves.

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Open communication is key. When children feel heard, they're more likely to share their struggles and their fears and their concerns, which helps build that trust. And creating a safe environment also means that grandparents need to address their own feelings, acknowledging the challenges and the emotions that come up with raising grandchildren and not being afraid to ask for help. But at the same time, trauma manifests differently in children, right? So some withdrawal while others act out in anger or rebellion. So it's important for grandparents, especially to be able to recognize the signs, like changes in behavior or sleep disturbances or increased anxiety. And seeking professional help, whether it's therapy or counseling, can make a significant difference. And trauma informed care is critical for helping children process and heal from their experiences. So we should understand that they don't need to have all the answers. You don't have to have all the answers. Right? Professionals provide wonderful guidance on how to support grandchildren through their healing journeys.

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And it's also essential to let the child know that they're loved and that their feelings and experiences are valid. You know, as someone who went through some pretty dark stuff from a very young age.

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And as you say, some of those things just resurface with time through the process of healing.

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It's a natural process, I think. No doubt. And I think it happens for the rest of our life when that's the foundation of what we have to begin with. How do you cope with the demons that come up? They don't. They don't.

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They don't come up anymore. I've gotten to a state where I understand the feelings that happened, the trauma that I've been through, and realized that it's not happening anymore and it can never happen again because I have put myself in a position where I'm not going to be a victim ever again. And holding on to the resentment or the anger or the feelings of abuse only give power to the abuser and only serve to subjugate me or keep me held down and prevent me from living my best life. And you've already taken enough from me. You don't get anymore. And so one of the practices that I do is gratitude, right? Like, if I get into it or if I see a situation that might trigger me, like, going into the juvenile halls to. To mentor these kids was a pretty rough practice, I would say, in the beginning, and it. I didn't quite know how to handle that. It was the closest thing I could say to a PTSD going in there. My palms are sweating, my heart's thumping, I'm hearing keys jingling and doors closing. And you're in that environment again, and it's like, oh, my God, I never thought I was going to get out of that environment. Now I'm right back into it. And so that was really rough. But to walk outside and to see the sun and realize I'm free, I can do anything that I want to do. It's just this thing that. That's causing these thoughts right now. And we have control over our thoughts. We can control the way that we think. Whenever these negative thoughts or these painful emotions come up, make a habit of reminding yourself where you're at, where you live, look outside, take a walk, breathe some fresh air, realize, like, no, no, it's not happening now. And the only thing that keeps it alive is my thoughts. That's a great message to give to kids, too, because I know the talk that goes on in the brain and my grandkids, who both are diagnosed with ADHD and a couple of other things I know that their minds slip back and track stuff that happens because I can see it through their actions. You know, I have a grandson who saw their parents draw knives on each other or point guns at each other. So he takes his cars. In fact, I've watched it this week. It seems it went away for a while now it seems to be coming back. But he takes the metal cars, like the matchbox cars, and he's always breaking them through stuff because he doesn't have a knife. I have to keep knives away from him, but he'll take punch holes and cardboard and walls and stuff like that. It takes me back when he does that. And I want to say, no, that's not how we treat toys. But I wonder if maybe talking to them and say, remember, you're not there anymore.

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People aren't putting knives on each other anymore. I often tell grandparents, or talk to grandparents who say, we're in a unique situation because we have a lot of experience behind and we've seen a lot. We don't care what people think anymore at this point, but we have to talk about difficult things. That's oftentimes why we're alienated from our old friends, because they don't want to hear us talk about kids that are incarcerated or people that are sexually abusing each other or talk about knives and guns. But that's real stuff for a lot of kids. I'm actually writing it, my first children's book right now to bring those conversations to real life, not just to let other people know that these are the conversations we needed to have with kids. This is why we have to talk about why mom abuses dad or dad abuses mom and put those feelings somewhere for them, because it's not the pretty life that we all thought we'd be living. You know, at this point in our lives, we thought we'd be laying on a beach somewhere by blue waters and sand and our kids would grow up and they're happy and married and fine. But this is not the reality that a big percentage of our population is living. So it has to be talked about. Well, sure, and I think prevention and early intervention is huge, especially when it's grandparents that are taking grandchildren in. Preventing these kids from following in their parents footsteps requires early intervention as early as possible.

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Getting them involved in structured programs and mentorship and educational resources. It can change their trajectory. Let's talk about that. Talk about your vision for kids, what you would do. I don't know how many young kids you talk to.

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I talked to quite a few. I do have a nonprofit organization that's a very young. And where we focus on trying to build programs that focus on life skills and emotional intelligence and personal development that's invaluable to these kids. And we try to focus on empowerment and personal growth, which are critical to breaking these cycles. And when we equip the young kids with job skills and emotional intelligence and a sense of accountability, we give them the tools to avoid the pitfalls of addiction and incarceration. And we offer what I call an empowerment package, which is designed to equip them with skills they need to thrive in the real world. It includes job readiness training, mindset coaching program on forgiveness and accountability. Because forgiveness is powerful. It's not just for others, but for yourself. And when the youth learn to forgive themselves for their past, they're able to break free from the shame and the guilt that often hold them back. And by teaching personal accountability and giving them tools to build emotional resilience, we empower them to. To make better choices and to forge a new path. But it's also about resilience. I like to try to help these kids own their story. Right. One of the most powerful lessons that I've learned is that owning your story authentically and fearlessly is transformative. So when you own your story, including the painful parts, you take back control. It no longer has power over you. Instead, you.

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You use it to empower others. Right? So, my addiction, or my journey from childhood and abuse to incarceration to transformation has shown me the power of sharing personal experiences. It's not just about healing yourself. It's about showing others that change is possible no matter where you start. How do you begin doing that with a young person? How do you begin helping them own their story? I think by getting them comfortable telling that story first, it gives them permission to confront their own pain and begin their healing journey.

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You become a living example of resilience. And that's incredibly powerful, I think, showing them right, and by showing them examples of people like myself or the Sean cranes of the world, or people that have been through it, exposing them to credible messengers, people that have been through it. And this is why I think mentorship is such an important thing. So when I was incarcerated, there was a lot of college educated people that would come in, and they're trying to help, and their hearts are in the right place. They're coming in to try to help, give tools to help fix your life. But it's tantamount to a 19 year old who's never had a drink in his life. Going to an AA meeting and leading the AA meeting. Right. Nobody's going to really absorb what you're saying because you haven't been there. You haven't been through that path. And so for most kids, that's the way they see it. Like parents don't understand, grandparents don't understand, adults don't understand.

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Because you haven't been through this. You don't know what I'm going through. And so when we expose them to people that have. That have a proven track record of being a leader in the community or somebody that has a track record of helping kids, because you don't want to just pick anybody that's ever been to prison and be like.

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Because a lot of them also haven't been fixed. Right. That's why the recidivism rate is so high. We expose them to these mentors, and that can have such a profound effect because we've been there. They know that we've been there. They know that we're not just telling you what we think you need to know. I've been in your shoes, man. I was there. And that just that relatability factor, I think is so important, which is why I strive to put together as many ex convicts as I can that have been through it. And it's not even about ex convicts. It's also about childhood abuse survivors, mental illness. Right. Because not everybody that's been abused goes to prison. Right. And so I think that's the first part, is to connect them with somebody that's been there, that's been in their shoes. But even if you don't have that connection, it's not impossible. It's also about sitting them down and maybe being vulnerable and telling some of your own trauma and your own pain that you've been through in life.

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Kids see parents and parental figures as these immortal creatures that have never been through anything traumatizing or painful. Right. They look at it like, you don't know, mom, you've got a great life.

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You work, you pay bills, you have a house. You're immortal.

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Right? One of the most profound lines you've ever heard is from the crow, that movie in the nineties that said, mother is the name of God on the lips and tongues of all children. And that's true, right?

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Parents or kids look at parents and grandparents like these amazing creatures that have never had to endure the stuff that I'm enduring. And kids see, they don't hear, right.

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They watch. They see my grandkids.

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They idolize their parents. Sure. I tell them, your parents it's not about them not loving you.

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There's good in all people, but this is the part you can't own. This is the part you don't want to own. And again, kids will idolize their parents regardless of what their parents are like. It's almost Stockholm syndrome. Like, you can have an abusive parent that you will still cater to and take care of in their elder years, even though the parent wasn't a good parent. And that's like a shackle. And so we have to show these kids it's okay to have the. Also have the feeling of, maybe my mom and dad aren't such amazing people. Maybe they've been through things that they don't know how to deal with either. And you're right when you say it's not that they don't love you, they don't love themselves. They can't let go of their own trauma and their own pain. And that's why they're stuck in addiction or they're stuck in whatever cycle that they're stuck in. And they don't have the capacity to extend that forgiveness to themselves. So they don't have the ability to do it for others. I'm always amazed at how much they really do understand. Yesterday I was at the kitchen sink fixing dinner and my granddaughter was sitting in front of me and she brought up how she was sad. I said, why are you sad? She said, I'm just sad because my mom, I know. She goes, I know why my mom can't call me now because she always called when she wasn't in jail, every week on time. She said, I can understand that, but I can't understand why my dad won't call because he could if he wanted to. And I said, you know, I want to tell you.

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Can I tell you what I think is going on? I'm not sure because I don't know him, you know that well, and I don't know know the way he thinks. But I think there could be some shame that he's ashamed that he can't get his life together to take care of you. But I think also, I don't think he understands his own situation, so he's still trying. She goes, and you know what she said? She said, it's like he's a little kid, just like me. And I said, yeah, kind of like that. Kids are perceptive. Yeah, sure.

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And that makes sense. And a lot of times that's what those kids need to hear as well. Right? Like, dad's not calling you, probably because he's embarrassed or he's ashamed. And.

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And calling you would mean that he has to confront the fact that he hasn't been there. And in his mind, I can't just call and say, hey, kiddo, I love you, because that's a hollow sentence. Love is not something said, it's something shown. And I think the biggest fear for a dad might be that the kid's going to call you out on it. I have a six year old that I haven't seen in almost four years, and we've just reconnected. And he says it all the time. Like, dad, you missed my third birthday and my fourth birthday and my fifth birthday. And painful. It is painful. It cuts to the heart.

00:33:31.390 --> 00:34:00.961
But I'm also not going to sugarcoat it. That wasn't my choice, buddy. Right? Like, I have been here and I have been trying, and it's really hard when the parents can't get along and it creates that broken and home environment because you want to tell the kid things like, your mom is insane. I've been trying, but you don't want to do that. Because I don't want to diminish his capacity to love his mother as well. Right. Because she takes care of him. She, you know, she feeds him.

00:34:00.986 --> 00:35:42.992
And he sees his mother as this amazing creature, and I don't want to diminish that for him. But at the same time, I'm not going to allow you to grow up thinking that I just didn't want to be there. And so it's a very difficult dynamic. But parents are just as susceptible as shame and embarrassment as children are. Right? Absolutely. What I found in this experience is that it forced me to deal with some things I wasn't dealing with. So I've been going through reliving my own trauma, which has been a really good thing, facing the walls that I've had to go through. But let's go back to mentorship for a minute. I live in a really rural area. How could I create mentorship for my grandkids? There's some things I can't understand that they've been through that I didn't experience. And I do feel like someone who maybe came from where they did, but grew up and was able to overcome it and is living a healthy life that that would be really powerful person to person in this technological age to speak with them. How can we build mentorship programs in areas where there isn't one? You can create them by reaching out to local community members, and you can utilize social media for these things. Reaching out and just putting it out there to ask if there's anybody that's been through these and if they would like to help. And you can form your own mentorship group, or you can reach out and find the ones that are existing or that are in the area. With technology the way it is now, we have the ability, like you and I are now, to talk across the country or across the world, and to put these kids in that type of environment I think is important. Start a community group.

00:35:43.096 --> 00:36:23.688
Right? Reach out. And because one in six boys are abused and sexually abused, and I think it's even worse for girls. I think it's like one in three, one in four. So if you reach out to the community, just put out in your social media or a neighborhood group or something, you will find so many people that will come out and be like, oh, my God, that happened to me. And a lot of them probably haven't dealt with it either. So then you create this community hub of people that are trauma bonding and are coming together to say, wow, we could all heal together. And you never know what you can create by starting something like that. You can create this ripple effect of kindness and compassion and love and understanding that can change your entire community.

00:36:23.864 --> 00:36:27.376
Yeah. If it doesn't exist. Built it. Field of dreams.

00:36:27.407 --> 00:36:38.824
Right. And when we can't allow that fear to prevent us from doing something that we know could contribute to the betterment of our communities. Right. Well, I think about little kids.

00:36:38.871 --> 00:37:17.994
I mean, if I could change the life of either one of these two children that I have, then I've died a happy woman. But you are changing their life. Yes. Well, but you're doing right now, like, this is something that they will take with them for the rest of their life, right? Yes, I hope so. I mean, that's the seed you hope to plant. One of the issues that grandparents raising grandkids have to face is that we're giving up our retirement to raise kids we didn't think we'd be raising at this point. We didn't plan on it. And you really don't know what's going to happen. I talked to countless grandparents who say, I raised my grandchild from the time they were little.

00:37:18.161 --> 00:37:36.628
And at 16, they got crazy and went off and started doing drugs and got in trouble and went back to live with their parents because their parents allow it. Allow it, right. They go, what happened to that beautiful little child that I was working with that was doing so well when they were young?

00:37:36.684 --> 00:37:39.960
I know myself that I could be in the same situation.

00:37:40.340 --> 00:38:39.079
I don't know what the outcome is going to be, but I still wouldn't do it any differently because those seeds somewhere will be planted. The most important thing that I find that I have to constantly remind myself is that if I don't speak about these demons, if I don't talk about them with the kids, if I'm not transparent about it all, then it doesn't matter what I do. It really doesn't matter what I do, because I'm presenting a false story to them. I'm not getting to the deep stuff. Like you say, the real anger, if you don't get to your own real anger, then you can't get to theirs either. Sure. And I imagine that there's probably a feeling of responsibility and maybe guilt because as a grandparent, my child became a drug addicted, corrupted individual, and then I took on their kid, and then their kid became a drug addicted, corrupted individual.

00:38:40.019 --> 00:38:47.436
Maybe it's my raising style, maybe it's my parenting style, and they might start to internalize that and say I'm doing something wrong.

00:38:47.588 --> 00:38:55.364
And that's not the case. External factors come in constantly, and there's no guidebook to being a parent.

00:38:55.411 --> 00:39:35.346
There's no guidebook to how to raise another human being. The mind is such a complex thing that we can allow that feeling of guilt or responsibility to inundate us, and that's not good for anybody. No. Well, in the guilt becomes a cover up for not unfolding generational issues. So if I say I'm not going to face my anger, and then maybe, you know, two generations ago, I had, you know, I have alcoholism that runs in my family. So two generations ago, it might have shown up as a parent or grandparent that was an alcoholic, and then their child became a control freak because of that.

00:39:35.418 --> 00:40:04.898
And then the next generation there might be alcoholism shows up again, or drug addiction, because that was the popular thing to do at the time, then if we don't, if we don't really deal with that generational stuff, if you don't uncover that stuff, if you don't really get honest with that stuff, then you just pass it on again. Somebody doesn't communicate, and that's where the reality of that comes in. Right? I am not a drug addict because my great grandfather was an alcoholic.

00:40:05.034 --> 00:40:12.121
It doesn't work. Every human being comes here with the ability to dictate their own life.

00:40:12.306 --> 00:40:16.034
We have to come to that realization at some point.

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And the earlier we can get that realization to set in, the more successful the human being can be. What you said is accurate. If we don't uncover our own trauma and deal with it, we are going to pass it on to the next child. And that is what looks like generational addiction or generational trauma that passes through, because it's not really a thing that my grandpa was addicted to alcohol. So I'm just determined to have some type of addiction. It's not a thing. However, if it's not dealt with by either grandpa or by my mother or father, there's a huge chance that I'm going to inherit that problem because it was never dealt with. See what I'm saying? And the shame or embarrassment of that on the part of mother and father, don't allow them to acknowledge the fact that it's passing on because I didn't deal with it. So then they'll blame it on generational addiction. Right. And so it's not about the fact that it exists in the family line.

00:41:23.681 --> 00:41:55.717
It's about uncovering it, exposing it, and dealing with that trauma and being vulnerable with the kids and showing them. I'm not perfect. I'm a human being. I don't have all the answers, but I love you and I support you, and we're here to do this together. So whatever it is that you're feeling, you're always open to come talk to me about it. Let me know, and we'll figure it out. I'll help you. We'll do it together. Yeah. And I think creating that structural safety net for them is so important so that they feel vulnerable enough to be able and trusting enough to be able to share with whatever they're going through. Yeah.

00:41:55.773 --> 00:42:51.253
Agreed. Absolutely. Well, as you say, you're not the sum of your mistakes. Your life is not over, and neither are your grandchildren's lives. Facts. Yeah. And you have the ability to help and heal everybody around you. I think that's something that's very important as well. I'm not a grandparent, so I don't. I can't really relate. But from a human being perspective, I think it's important that we also show these kids that we help other people. I'm not helping you out of a sense of obligation just because you're my grandkid. I'm stuck with you because they're gonna internalize that, too. Right? Like, you only love me because you're my grandma. That's the only reason that you're helping me or taking me. And then they still feel inadequate. They still feel like they're lacking the. The human characteristics of being loved, of being cared for. You're only doing this because you're my mom's mom, and they'll internalize that.

00:42:51.302 --> 00:43:06.286
So by helping other people that aren't necessarily family, and by reaching out and being accessible and vulnerable with everybody around us, we show them in real time that I'm a loving, caring person. It's not out of a sense of obligation.

00:43:06.398 --> 00:43:10.155
I'm not in debt. I do you. I do it because I care.

00:43:10.307 --> 00:44:05.139
Right. Very good point. Tell us about the von Cleveland foundation. So, it's my nonprofit organization that I founded based on the experiences I've had in my life, again, about being a credible messenger. Book saved my life. When I was doing my time in solitary confinement, I consumed so many by read over 300 books, and these books profoundly changed my life. So one of the facets that we do with my nonprofit is we donate mindset libraries. We build these bookshelves, and we put 50, 60 mindset and personal development books on them. And we donate them to places like juvenile halls or jails or rehab facilities or foster homes or whatever has a client base of people that need to fix themselves.

00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:29.679
Here are the literary works of our lifetime that can help you do that. Here's other people that have gone through it. One of these books is going to reach you. One of these books is going to go through something that you've been through. And here's the tools that they used to overcome that and give you accessibility to these tools. So that's a big part of our thing. So we raise money to purchase these books and put them locations.

00:44:30.300 --> 00:45:10.791
Our second is our igniting, mind speaking symposium. It's basically like a TEDx. It's so difficult for non professional speakers to get on a stage to share their stories, but these are the ones that people need to hear. We need to hear non professional speakers because our voice is our healing mechanism. And when we put it on stage, it's hard to talk about being raped the first time. You talk about it the second time, the third time, the fourth time, the fifth time. But then it starts to get easier because you've said it so much. I've talked about being raped in prison a lot, and so for me, I can talk about it like it's nothing because I've dealt with that trauma. My voice has healed me.

00:45:10.815 --> 00:45:14.351
The more I've talked about it, the less it hurts. And that's called healing.

00:45:14.496 --> 00:46:10.969
So we've built these platforms where we take people that have been through it and we put them on stage and allow them to tell their story. You don't have to be a professional speaker just come out and be brave enough to be vulnerable and talk about what's happened to you, how it affected you and what you've done to cope with that and the method you've gone through to get through it in your life, because as you're speaking, you're healing, but you're also giving permission and the ability to the people that hear you to relate and to be inspired to say, you know what? If that person can do it, so can I. You may not be able to relate to my story in its entirety, but there's something in there that you're going to relate to. There's some type of trauma and then something that I've done. I'm not going to give you five keys or seven magical steps or twelve magical items that are going to heal you and fix your life. I'm going to tell you what I've been through, what I did, and if something in that can help you, then take it.

00:46:11.309 --> 00:46:22.467
Right? Yeah. And so that's the goal of the igniting, mind speaking symposiums. We hope to get it across the country. We need to raise money to be able to secure venues and all that. So that's another facet.

00:46:22.563 --> 00:46:25.867
And ultimately we're working on our mentorship program.

00:46:25.963 --> 00:46:36.159
It's a personal development coaching program. I have this wonderful twelve week, eight module course that I've designed called the choice effect.

00:46:37.780 --> 00:47:17.820
And it's a self directed manual of the things that I've gone through, the things my wife has gone through and how we cope with it, and some tools that people can use to eliminate self sabotaging behaviors and to double down on empowering habits and to set goals and create these things, to put yourself in the best position to live the life of your dreams. So that's the, the goal of my foundation. It's very young, it's very new. So we're still trying to work out kinks. We're a very small team. It's chasing a hope right in a dream and just trying to be the change we want to see in the world. Awesome. Your website? I have several.

00:47:18.119 --> 00:47:39.420
I have sunnyvoncleveland.com, which that one is kind of a launch pad that you can find. Anything about me. I have heywhiteboy.com, which is for my book. Yep. And then I have the Von Cleveland foundation. And you can just go to tvcfoundation.org or just put in the Von Cleveland foundation in Google and it'll pop up.

00:47:40.570 --> 00:47:55.177
Just a pleasure meeting you, Sonny. An absolute pleasure to talk to you, Laura. It's an incredible and more conversations like this need to happen. Absolutely. Anything else you want to ask or say? You are all worthy of the life of your dreams.

00:47:55.233 --> 00:47:58.030
Choose to live that. Just know that.

00:47:58.889 --> 00:48:16.590
If you'd like to learn more about the incredible work that Sonny and his team are doing at the Von Cleveland foundation, if you're interested in speaking with Sonny directly or purchasing his book, visit sunnyvoncleveland.com. you can find the link in the show notes. Thank you for listening.

00:48:18.170 --> 00:48:34.750
Thanks so much for joining us today for another episode of grandparents raising grandchildren, nurturing through adversity. I encourage you to share your challenges and your successes with us. Your story is undoubtedly one someone else needs to hear.

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You can submit your stories to the links provided in the podcast information. Your contributions will enrich upcoming conversations, creating a more supportive community in which we can learn and grow together. If you enjoyed this show, please share it with a friend that needs to hear. And if you love the show and you're listening on a broadcasting platform like Apple or Spotify, just scroll down in your app and please leave us a review. Join us next week on another deeply moving episode as I sit down with Aaron Gray, a trauma recovery expert and father who turned unimaginable loss into a journey of healing and growth. Aaron opens up about the harrowing moments following the tragic death of his son and shares the transformative steps that he's taken over the past eleven years to reclaim his life.

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Thank you for tuning in to grandparents raising grandchildren nurturing through adversity. Remember, you are not alone. Together we can find strength and hope in the face of adversity.

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Peace be with you and I pray that you find some time this week to listen to your inner wisdom amongst the noise and the pandemonium of this world.