The Survival Guide For Healing Bipolar Disorder

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Join us for an eye opening episode as we explore the incredible journey of Michelle Rettinger. A true beacon of hope in the realm of mental health. She was diagnosed with bipolar disorder in 1998. Michelle endured over a decade of turmoil, battling manic and depressive episodes and navigating a whirlwind of medications, therapists and hospital stays. In a world where despair seemed endless, Michelle found herself trapped, yearning for relief not just for her own sake, but for her husband and young children who painfully witnessed the disorder's impact.

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In a pivotal moment of change, Michelle and her psychiatrist stumbled upon a groundbreaking new approach that transformed her life.

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This marked the birth of a revolutionary mindset shift in treating bipolar disorder, focusing on empowerment, understanding and healing. Tune in as Michelle, now a celebrated public speaker, author and mentor, shares her inspiring story and unveils an integrated research backed treatment model that addresses the root causes of bipolar symptoms. Discover how her commitment to personal responsibility and her challenge to the victimhood mentality can set the stage for genuine recovery. This episode is not just about overcoming bipolar disorder. It's about reclaiming hope and forging a path to healing inspired by the love and support of family. So whether you're personally affected by bipolar disorder or seeking a deeper understanding, Michelle's journey will leave you inspired and uplifted. I hope you won't miss this transformative conversation that might just spark the mind shift that that you or someone you love needs.

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Welcome to Grandparents Raising Grandchildren Nurturing through Adversity. In this podcast, we will delve deep into the challenges and triumphs of grandparents Raising grandchildren as we navigate the complexities of legal, financial and emotional support. I invite you to join us on a journey of exploring thoughts, feelings and beliefs surrounding this growing segment of our society. Drawing from real stories and expert advice, we will explore the nuances of child rearing for children who have experienced trauma and offer valuable resources to guide you through the intricate journey of kinship care.

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Welcome to a community where your voice is heard, your experiences are valued, and your journey is honored.

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Michelle, you have an incredibly powerful story to share.

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It's a story that I'm so excited to share with others because many people are misinformed about bipolar disorder. So why don't you tell us about your pre diagnosis and your journey up to this point?

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Absolutely. I was diagnosed back in 1998, one month before graduating from college.

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And leading up to that, I had increasingly severe mood swings.

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It would. From, you know, in college. And it was interesting because on the outside, I looked great. I was on the dean's list. You know, I looked like I was thriving if you looked at everything on paper. But I was in crisis, and it was getting worse. And so it began with, you know, I would have elevated mood states, you know, really big ideas. I would feel like I had really clear. You know, I found my path. I'd found what I was supposed to do with my life. And I would tell everybody. I would speak really rapidly, get really excited, and I was very confident, and I was very convincing. People that listened to me were thinking, oh, yeah, I'm glad she's figured it out. You know, and then I would crash and I'd get really depressed. It felt very dark to me. My. One of the. I look back on it, and the things that were coping mechanisms were really interesting to me just from an analytical standpoint. You know, I would buy new makeup every time I got depressed, and I would go get my hair done and doing things to try and make myself feel better. And it would get worse and worse and worse till I was watching television all day and, you know, missing classes and. And that. And then I would swing back up into this elevated mood state, and I would stay up for a few days and get all my schoolwork done. And that's how I ended up on the dean's list, because at that point in my. I was in classes that were entirely dependent on, like, one major test or, you know, a major paper or something. And so I would stay up for a few days, not get any sleep, get all of this stuff done, ace the classes, and end up on the dean's list. But I was in crisis, and my parents lived in a different state. And so they were starting to become concerned because they would hear from me probably about every day for several weeks with me talking about my new plan, and then radio silence. And they wouldn't hear from me for a couple weeks. And then the next time they heard from me, I had an entirely different plan. And I changed my major in school. And, you know, and it was. It was becoming increasingly concerning for them. And they finally were the ones that I had an aunt and uncle who lived nearby who were observing much more closely what was going on. And between my parents and my aunt and uncle, they all convinced me to go see a psychiatrist.

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And when I was in the hospital. Were you close with your parents? Yes, I was very close with my parents. I was Also their oldest child.

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And so this was, you know, me being away at school. All of these things were still, you know, were new to them, and they just didn't know what to do to help me. When I went to my first appointment, I was so severely depressed. I was having a hard time talking. And my aunt came with me. She offered to go with me. So I wasn't by myself. And she did a lot of the talking because I described it as feeling like my brain was muddy. I just felt like I couldn't think, and it felt like kind of sloshing through mud in my brain.

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And so a lot of the information was supplied by my aunt because I couldn't articulate a lot of what I was experiencing. And I was initially diagnosed with depression and anxiety disorders. And they put me on an antidepressant. And within a few months, as that medication built up in my system, I became manic. And at that point, I graduated from college, I was living at home, and my parents had a front row seat to what was going on, and they were disturbed by what they were seeing. And so they encouraged me to go back to the psychiatrist. And this was. I'd moved to. Back to the state where they were. And I went to this new psychiatrist and they said, oh, you've been misdiagnosed. And they changed my diagnosis to bipolar. It was bipolar, too, because they said what I experienced with the hypomania wasn't true mania. I didn't have psychosis.

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I wasn't experiencing what we would consider mania. I was. It was considered hypomania. And that's just that elevated mood, you know, lots of ideas, talking really rapidly. My brain just couldn't shut off. You know, I just kept going and going and going. And so that started me on the path with all of the psychotropic drugs. You know, I was initially treated with lithium, which is the go to for, you know, bipolar diagnosis, which I had a severe reaction to that. I had a psychotic episode on lithium. And it was just, you know, constantly changing medications, trying to find the right one is what they were telling me, and adding medications when I lived in a couple. A few years later, I moved to Chicago and I had my first anxiety attack. And I thought I was having a heart attack. I spent eight hours in the emergency room with them running all kinds of tests on me. And by the end of the day, they said, well, we don't see any evidence. You know, they kept me there long enough, that long, because they were seeing some external symptoms, you know, elevated blood pressure. You know, my heart was racing. And by the end of the day, the doctor, you know, said, I noticed in your chart you have, you know, you're diagnosed with bipolar. And I was confused by that question that seemed like an odd thing for him to ask me. And he told me he thought what I was actually experiencing was an anxiety attack.

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And so then they just added another medication. So for the next. You know, for the first 10 years after my diagnosis, I diligently went to every psychiatric appointment, took every medication they told me to take. You know, at one point, I was on seven different medications.

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And I got to the point where I became convinced that my life was not worth living anymore. I had at that, you know, at 10 years in, I was married, and I had three young children. And my mind convinced me that my husband would be better off if he had a different wife. My kids needed a different moment. You know, I just needed to end things because everybody was suffering.

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And I had a breakdown in 2008, which was 10 years after my initial diagnosis. And I ended up hospitalized in three different hospitals across two different states. They did electroconvulsive therapy on me, which is for people that don't know that's, you know, intentionally causing seizures in your brain. Some people call it shock treatment. Oh, my gosh. And I lost a lot of memory from that time. I had a.

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Of actual psychotic episode during that period, which they changed my diagnosis from bipolar 2 to bipolar I because of that. And it just felt very hopeless. I felt like there really wasn't any hope, like my life was just suffering.

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And I had an experience one day after my third hospitalization where I was watching my kids play, and I had this really clear thought, if you ever successfully end your life, it will ruin your daughter's life. And she was 4 years old at the time. And as soon as I had that thought, I knew it was true. Because she was always feeling responsible for everybody. She always wanted to make everybody feel happy, everybody feel better.

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And I realized she would think it was her fault. She would spend the rest of her life convinced that it was her fault that her mom died. And so from that point on, I became fully committed to surviving. And I thought, if all I can do is survive my life, I will do it for my daughter. Because even though I didn't think my life had value, I knew hers did. And that was a turning point for me, because up to that point, I'd felt like a victim. You know, I felt like everything was happening to me and I didn't have any control over it.

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But I became determined to figure out some way to survive, because I love my daughter, I love my children, I love my husband. I wanted to survive for them. And that was the beginning of me starting to try. You know, the first step on my path to recovery was actually developing a plan for myself for how to manage the symptoms. You know, I thought, I know they're coming.

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I've been living this for a decade. You know, I know it's coming. There's gotta be a way to manage it. There's gotta be a way to be proactive about managing the symptoms, rather than. Because before that, I kind of felt like every time I would experience symptoms, it felt like getting yanked onto a roller coaster.

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And I was just holding on for dear life until it was over, you know, and then I would survey the damage I'd done in the process. But at this point, I started working on. I actually have journal entries from the day that I started working on this. It was after a fourth hospitalization. I had been hospitalized again a year after my initial breakdown, and I was again watching my kids play. Seemed to be the catalyst for these ideas.

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And I had this thought, is there a way for me to create a system to manage this? And that was the beginning of what's called the Mood Cycle Survival Guide. And I developed that plan to manage my symptoms, to be more proactive in managing things. And that helped me to begin taking more responsibility and control of what was happening in my life, which led me then to be prepared for when I found the additional tools that helped me to actually recover. And now, at this point, you know, in the last few years, I've completely recovered. I do not experience symptoms anymore. And I didn't understand that I was recovering. I didn't understand that I was healing when I was going through that process. I just thought I was finding ways to manage it better. Because I believed what I had been told, that bipolar was incurable, that it was chronic, and that I would need medication for the rest of my life. And as I started going through and finding tools and resources to actually get to the source of the symptoms I was experiencing, it resolved the symptoms, and I was able to completely recover. Wow, Michelle, that is such a powerful story. So I'm assuming that those tools in the Mood Cycle Survival Guide are two of the big things that you share with others to help them cope with this diagnosis that they've been given that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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In fact, that Mood Cycle Survival Guide is a free resource I offer on my website. That's the first step That I always tell people, you've got to take responsibility for these symptoms because feeling like a victim is not a good way to live your life. If you're feeling like you have no control, like you're a victim to these things, like it's happening to you, it's a very hopeless way to live.

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And the whole point of this is to acknowledge, I need help right now. And what help do I need? How do I access it? What are the things that I could do to be proactive in facing what I'm struggling with rather than just suffering?

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I'm assuming that system is one that can apply in many different situations.

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Right. Depression or whatever diagnosis you've been.

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Yeah, it's just a way to be proactive about managing mental health. You know, and I actually started. I've been. You know, I'm a public speaker, and I've had a number of different organizations now have me come present this to their groups. And the most recent one that was really. I loved this was my favorite experience, was presenting to a group of youth. Yes. Because one of the challenges we have right now in our society is almost a popularization of mental health challenges on social media. It's under the guise of normalizing or bringing awareness, too. But it's this idea that this is your identity, that these struggles that you're experiencing are who you are.

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And that creates a big problem for these youth growing up, developing their sense of self. Because if they believe that that's who they. Why would they ever have any curiosity about what was causing those things? You know, you would lose your identity if you lost these issues. And so it keeps them kind of in a perpetual state of suffering, and it's just a horrible way to live. And so that's why I love presenting this. You know, there's just that it's a very straightforward plan. You know, the first thing in that plan, the first step in that plan is who's your team? Who are the people you can turn to for help, and what is the help they can offer? What are the boundaries around that help? Making sure that you're clearly identifying who you can ask for help and how to do it so that you're not burning out resources all the time by waiting until you're in crisis to ask. Right? Yeah. And so it's bringing it to the front and saying, okay, I have this thing that I struggle with. I need help. These are the people I can ask for help. This is how I do it. So that it empowers you to reach out when you need Help and then also helps you keep from burning bridges because you're setting boundaries around that assistance and honoring those boundaries. And then the second step in that plan is identifying what your early warning system is. What are the symptoms that you experience and identifying them as symptoms. I think that's one of the things a lot of times we don't understand about these mental health challenges is that a lot of the behaviors that we feel are so abhorrent to us, that we don't like, that are embarrassing, are actually symptoms. Just like running a fever. You know, a fever is a symptom of your body in distress. And we don't stigmatize that. These other symptoms that we experience, these mental health symptoms are indications that the brain is in distress. And so learning how to identify this, this is a symptom and I need to pay attention to it. What is it saying to me, what is it what my mind needs right now? And then also recognizing triggers. So this early warning system is helping you become much more self aware so that you can become proactive in managing things.

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And then the third step in the plan is identifying what your power priorities are. Oftentimes, you know, for me, when I was going through these periods when I was depressed, I struggled to get out of bed, I struggled to, you know, do basic things, but I was trying to do everything still because especially the things that were visible to the public, you know, things that were visible to other people because I was embarrassed and I didn't want them to know that I was struggling. And it felt like trying to climb a hill in a mudslide. The harder I tried, the worse things got. And so identifying what my power priorities are, what are the things that are most important, that are going to be supportive of me and those that I am responsible for, and then letting go of all the other things until I'm back to a good mental state, you know. And the same was true on the other end with mania. I often my hypomania, I often would get going on huge projects like big plans, big ideas in that, and the things that mattered most would get neglected. And so this power priorities was a way to make sure that the things that really were mat the things that really mattered were attended to.

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And then if you don't have the emotional capacity to do anything else, you let go of those things until you're back into a healthy place.

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And then the final step in that plan is coming up with a plan to get back to that healthy mental state to reboot your system so that you're not Just feeling like you're a victim and you have to wait till it's over, that you have a plan in place that helps you get back to that healthy, balanced mental state. I think these are all very common sense. What tools? They're just tools. Thank you.

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Because I think we all go through different kinds of struggles and we can go down dark tunnels and be really ineffective for our families and our friends and ourselves. And then we beat ourselves up because we're there. Let's talk about how medication plays a part in all of this.

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Well, when it comes to medication too, I think one of the challenges we have with medication is that it has become prescriptive of a long term prescription instead of having curiosity. And I always go back to the fever analogy. If somebody started running persistent fevers and they were getting progressively worse and you ended up at the hospital, they're not going to diagnose you with fever disorder.

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They might give you, if it's really high, they might give you something to bring it down temporarily because that's dangerous. You know, if you're running a really, really high fever, you can end up with brain damage. So you want to do something to mitigate it in the short term, just to mitigate the symptoms that could potentially cause more damage. But long term, you have curiosity. What caused the fever to occur? We recognize that's a symptom of some kind of underlying distress. What is actually the source of the distress so that we can treat that and resolve the symptom. You're not going to have somebody prescribe anti inflammatories to somebody for the rest of their life to treat a fever. You do it temporarily, knowing that it's a temporary thing, and then you're going to get to the source of what actually caused the fever to occur. And that should be the same approach that we take with mental health challenges. And there's so much research now that helps us to identify sources of suffering, the sources of these mental health issues we've got. There's a ton of research out there now that helps us to recognize that oftentimes people have a micronutrient deficiency or insufficiency is what they actually like to call it.

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Our brains require micronutrients to function. All of the neurotransmitters, the building blocks of those neurotransmitters are micronutrients. If your brain is not getting the proper nutrition to function in a healthy way, it is going to have symptoms, you're going to experience symptoms and they come out in mental health well, we also have a lot of research now that's helping us understand that trauma causes emotional dysregulation. And when it is not treated, when we just try to medicate it without addressing the actual trauma, then the person continues to suffer. That was the case for me. Looking back now, I understand much of the source of my suffering was caused by abuse. I had abuse in a first marriage. I was 19 years old. And it became very abusive very quickly, and I didn't want to talk about it. When I finally got the courage to leave, I didn't want to tell anybody about what I'd gone through. I just buried it. And that caused emotional dysregulation. It caused a lot of dysfunction in me emotionally. And it got progressively worse. The longer it went on untreated, the worse it got. And so we need to stop calling these disorders and thinking that that's the end of the story. You know, thinking that we have been given an explanation.

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It doesn't serve any purpose other than to tell us what the symptoms are. All we're doing is identifying clusters of symptoms. You know, somebody who has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder has a cluster of symptoms that indicates, you know, these, these, you know, switching states. You know, you're. You experience depression and you might. And then you experience elevated mood states. That's not describing what caused the problem. All that's doing is saying you have fever disorder. You know, we're just describing the symptoms. Don't you think there's a universal sense of shame when it comes to admitting that you have any kind of problem, especially when it's related to a possible mental disorder. You don't want to talk about why all of a sudden you've become irritable or depressed because somebody might think, have an opinion about it. Why do people attach so much personal shame to those issues? I think there's two reasons for it. Number one, I think it's because those feelings come out in behaviors.

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And so if somebody is irritable, will be sharp with other people. You know, I had what people will refer to as bipolar rage. And it was these out of control outbursts that I would have with my children especially, that felt uncontrollable. I felt like I didn't have any control over myself. Often they felt like I was having an out of body experience, which I had therapists describe as dissociation. But I felt like I was watching myself, like I had no control. And then I would feel shame afterwards.

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I would feel so much shame about what I did because I love my children. And I'm not an abusive mother, but my behavior was abusive, but I didn't have the ability to stop myself because of what I was struggling with.

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And so I think that's part of it is, you know, a lot of times people, especially in manic states, will spend excessive amounts of money. People. You know, I have people come to me all the time saying, how do I stop myself from spending money? I've given my husband the credit cards. I've done all these things. And I'm still like, it's compulsive. It's not a. Yeah, well, yeah, it's this compulsive thing that it's like, you have to do it. It's not something that you feel like you have any control over.

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And I spent years trying to stop myself from doing these things, and I felt a tremendous amount of shame because I had no ability to stop myself from doing those things.

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The other piece of it, I think, actually comes from the diagnosis itself.

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So when you're struggling with these behaviors and you feel like you have no control, and then you're diagnosed with bipolar disorder and you're told that it's not your fault that, you know, that doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good to have these things that you're doing. You're told that it's. You have a disorder, your brain doesn't work right. You know, you can't help it. That feels terrible.

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Like it's a very hopeless prospect. Looking forward thinking. So you mean that I'm going to continue to have these outbursts with my kids and there's nothing I can do about it. And the medication often becomes problematic. And I want to make sure before I say this piece, I do not advocate people going off of medication cold turkey. If somebody feels like medication isn't working and they want to try something different, they need to work with somebody who understands drug action, that understands how to safely help them titrate off of medication and how to help their brain heal in the process.

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So I want to make sure people are very clear before I say this next piece that I am not advocating people stop their medications. Right.

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But medications, we have been misled as far as what medication actually does. There's a fantastic book by Professor Joanna Moncrieff, who's a psychiatrist and PhD out of the UK. Her entire career has been focused on understanding what the drugs are actually doing in the brain. And she does it without any. She doesn't have any motive other than just understanding drug action. And so she wrote a book Called a Straight Talking Introduction to Psychiatric Drugs. The truth about how they work and how to come off of them. And it was so eye opening to me because I had been told for years that having bipolar was like having diabetes and that the medication was like insulin. And I believed that. And what insulin does is actually regulate something in the body that is dysregulated. Right? It is our bodies produce insulin.

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Somebody who has diabetes, their body is not producing insulin in appropriate amounts. And so you give the body what it's missing. Right? That is not what's happening with psychiatric drugs. Psychiatric drugs are not natural to the brain. They are not normalizing brain function, they are abnormalizing it. And it's really important for people to understand that so that they can make a choice about whether or not they want to be medicated based on the understanding that it's not normalizing your brain, it is not making your brain work normally. It is actually abnormalizing brain function.

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And there will be people who choose to take medication because the abnormal brain function is a more comfortable state to them than the normal brain function. What I advocate is actually getting to the root of why your brain is not functioning in a healthy way. What is actually causing the brain to be dysregulated?

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Are you missing essential nutrients for your brain to be able to react to things in a healthy way? Are you struggling with unhealed trauma? Well, actually, it's interesting. The book that I recommend to people, if they want to learn more about this, is called the better Brain by Drs. Bonnie Kaplan and Julia Ruckledge. And in that, they actually talk about how the most beneficial indicator for what your brain is missing is actually the symptoms. Because we cannot test what's actually in the brain. When you do a blood test, that's not telling you what's actually getting to the brain. It's just telling you what's circulating in your blood. And so they recommend actually working with somebody who understands how to look at your symptoms and indicate, okay, these symptoms indicate that your brain is missing this. And I'll give you an example from my personal experience when I was going through cross titration, which is I was helping my brain to heal with the micronutrients and then slowly coming off the medications. I got to a point where I was so significantly better that I thought I was done. Like, I thought, oh, I'm better. This is what I need to help my body get what it needs.

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But I was still struggling with that bipolar rage. I was still struggling with this intense agitation that would come up out of Nowhere. And these outbursts that felt out of control and I didn't understand that that was a symptom. And I had been on the micronutrients for a couple of years at that point and I just happened to be speaking with one of their customer support people right after I'd had an outburst with my son. And she was asking how I was doing. And I said, I'm not doing great today. You know, I had this bad experience with my child. And I described the experience. I don't know why I did, because I thought that it was a moral failing on my part, that I just didn't have enough self control. Interesting. And when she listened to me, she said, oh sweetie, you need salmon oil. I'm like, what?

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She said, this is an indication, this agitation is actually a symptom of, and it's an indication of a missing nutrient in your brain. And I started on a really high dose of salmon oil and it resolved the issue. All of these years I'd been trying all of these coping skills, these, these tools that I'd been given, you know, count to 10 and all this stuff, and I couldn't. None of it worked. And all of a sudden I was able to apply what I had learned because my brain was getting what it needed to function in a healthy way. And so what resources do you use for that? Excuse me for interrupting, but. Yeah, no, go ahead. What resources do you use for. Oh, for. If somebody wants to go through that. Yeah. So the one that I used, which is I advocate frequently for people, is True Hope's customer support. So True Hope is the nonprofit company that produces the micronutrients that I use. And the reason why I advocate for them. There's one other company that I will say I can advocate comfortably for them, which is Hardy Nutritionals. And the reason is that these are the only two companies that have actually done. They've had a ton of research done on their nutrients specifically for brain health. They have.

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Between the two companies, they have over 50 studies that have been done by independent researchers across the US and Canada and even New Zealand that have proven the efficacy of these treatments for mental health specific conditions. And the True Hope has customer support specifically to help people through the cross titration process. Most doctors don't understand how to safely titrate off of medications. They are not educated on that. When I went through, you know, when I was still taking medications, if I would switch medications, I was told by the doctor, cut this in half for a week and then you're going to go off of it. That is not safe, that is way too fast and you will experience withdrawals. But the problem is the withdrawals are attributed to the quote unquote disorder rather than acknowledging these are drug withdrawals. Your brain is used to this medication and now you've taken it away and the brain is not happy. And so I advocate for that. I've also, you know, there are also some holistic psychiatrists out there who are thoroughly trained in cross titration. So I always advocate for people finding an expert, finding somebody who has been thoroughly trained in the drug action and what, you know, what happens when you go through withdrawal and how to safely withdraw from it so that your brain actually can, can do it in a way that isn't dangerous.

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You know, if you go through, withdraw these medications too quickly, you can actually, it can actually be life threatening. You know, you can have severe withdrawal symptoms and sometimes they're life threatening. So that's why I say do not do this on your own. Work with somebody who knows what they're doing.

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So you would say that for healthy management of mental disorders, that, number one, the survival guide that you use to identify and stabilize yourself emotionally and mentally is a key component?

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Absolutely. Also then I would say at that point, you're saying that working with a psychiatrist that is holistic and integrates these other imbalances that may be within our systems is the second part of that. What other key component would you say would be important for managing mental health? I think that it's really important to understand how to utilize therapy in a proactive way. When I was first, the first 15 years that I was, you know, after my diagnosis, I kept being told to go to therapy and I was told that I was going to therapy to learn coping mechanisms, you know, healthy coping mechanisms to help me cope with my symptoms. And it was entirely ineffective. First of all, to try and learn how to cope with things that continue to persist. That's like saying, how do you, you know, learning skills, how to cope with fevers, right? Like that's. It was asinine, you know, what I was being told. And the other thing is, I didn't understand how to use therapy in a proactive way. I would say probably at least 80% of therapists out there are strictly talk therapists. And in my experience, it's not effective. Talk therapy for me actually made things worse because just talking about my problems without coming up with real solutions was not helpful to me. It made things worse. It caused me to dwell on the problems which tend to magnify It. And so over the years, I started discovering trauma therapy. And there are a number of effective trauma modalities out there that actually help you get to the source of the trauma, help you actually identify the trauma and heal the trauma so that you can resolve the emotional dysregulation that was caused by it. Which do you recommend? Well, I can't say that I recommend a specific trauma modality because everybody's different. It depends on when the trauma occurred. Childhood trauma is significantly different from adult trauma.

00:33:23.029 --> 00:34:03.672
You can have types of trauma that are really severe. For example, sexual abuse, you know, is very different from emotional neglect. You know, so there's lots of different types of trauma. And I think one of the things that we have a tendency to do is, is think of trauma in a. In a very specific way. So when I say, you know, somebody who's experienced trauma, you're thinking, you know, severe trauma, like sexual trauma or natural disaster, or like big t trauma, like these big traumas. And so if somebody hasn't experienced that, they're like, well, I don't have trauma, and so I don't need that. But I had a very healthy family life growing up.

00:34:03.776 --> 00:35:35.532
But I experienced pretty severe bullying from fourth grade all the way through eighth grade. And it caused a lot of problems for me emotionally because I had no friends. I was being constantly picked on and bullied, and it made me feel like there was something wrong with me. I developed coping mechanisms that weren't super healthy as a result of it. So when. When people talk about childhood trauma, I don't identify myself. I didn't identify myself as having childhood trauma because I was never sexually abused as a child. I was not beaten or, you know, like those things that a lot of times we think of as severe trauma. But I had trauma in my childhood that caused some emotional dysregulation that then kind of made me vulnerable to bit, you know, other traumas as I got older. And so how would we identify what particular type of modality we should use for therapy with a child or with ourselves? I start with learning about the trauma modalities. And so I have a program that I walk people through the healing process. And in a module that I do on trauma, on therapy and trauma healing, I talk about some of the modalities out there and then encourage people to research more. I want you to look at the different trauma modalities. So we have some of the. The big ones that people are used to hearing about are emdr, which is not necessarily advisable for children. You know, childhood Trauma, there's internal family systems therapy, there is rapid resolution therapy, there's somatic therapy. So there's a number of different trauma modalities out there.

00:35:35.715 --> 00:36:02.237
And it's one of the things that I think is really challenging is us thinking that somebody else needs to tell us what to do. Instead of taking that into our own hands, learning about it, you know, we can, we can. And then finding a trauma therapist. Therapists are not trained as a, as trauma therapists in their general training. They have to seek out trauma therapy, you know, training. And so you want a trauma informed therapist.

00:36:02.414 --> 00:36:53.400
So you need to look for somebody who has. And you, you can do that by identifying these trauma modalities and then looking for therapists that are trained in those trauma modalities. But it's. And then the other thing is, I wrote an article on my blog a little while back that talked about the things I wish I'd known when I started therapy. And it's talking about how to be proactive, that the therapist is not necessarily the expert. Like you're ceding control to the therapist. They are a facilitator. Therapy itself is a tool and you're looking for a competent facilitator to help you utilize that tool in your, in your life. And so, you know, in that article I talk about, you know, making sure that you're proactive and seeking out the type of therapy you think might be beneficial to you. You're going to have to take time finding the right fit for you.

00:36:53.440 --> 00:37:14.940
Sometimes we go to a therapist and it's not a good fit. I know that there are people who've even had bad experiences in therapy and I encourage them. Don't dismiss the resource because you had a bad experience with somebody. Try again with somebody different, you know, and then make sure that you are, you know, with that mood cycle survival guide, it helps you to become much more self aware.

00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:19.032
And the more self aware you become, you can start to connect the dots.

00:37:19.096 --> 00:37:34.065
You can start to see like, okay, I had this experience and it triggered these symptoms in me. Why, why did I have that reaction? If we stop looking at anxiety attacks, for example, an anxiety attack, is your body's defense system going to work?

00:37:34.137 --> 00:37:48.865
What is it thinking you need to be defended against? What is it that's happening that's turning on that part of your brain and saying, I am in danger. So instead of seeing it as a disorder, recognizing this is a response. My brain is trying to do its job.

00:37:48.938 --> 00:37:52.081
What does it think is unsafe for me? And then taking it or taking the.

00:37:52.106 --> 00:38:16.460
Drug to stop the anxiety, Go to a therapist. Oh, yeah, absolutely. That's what. So many people are on anxiety medication these days. Anxiety is so uncomfortable. So I think the idea of being able to remove that discomfort is appealing to people, but it's because we have labeled them as disorders. Instead of recognizing this is the brain's natural defense system, it is asking for help. Don't shut it up. Listen to it.

00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:34.891
And so that's learning how to identify these connections between these symptoms and these triggers and taking that to the therapist and say, I had that experience myself. Once I stopped calling things disorders and once I started recognizing, like, okay, I'm having a trauma response right now. Why is my body reacting this way?

00:38:34.916 --> 00:38:52.989
I had an experience with somebody who was telling me that what I was sharing was dangerous online. And it caused a major reaction within me. I had a. I could feel my chest tightening. I could feel my. I could feel my body having a trauma response. And I. Because at that point I'd recognize, like, this is. My brain has turned on its defense system. What's going on?

00:38:53.369 --> 00:39:31.007
I was able to take the information about everything that had happened, and I went to my therapist and I'm like, okay, these are the circumstances, and this is the response. We got to figure out what happened here. And we were able to identify that the experience I had triggered unhealed trauma from my hospitalization. And it had never occurred to me that I. That I needed to resolve trauma from the hospitalization. But once I resolved that, I've encountered the same trigger since then, and I have no emotional response to it because I've resolved it, My brain doesn't feel like it's in danger anymore when I have those experiences. What we're talking about is managing the health of our bodies and our minds. Absolutely.

00:39:31.103 --> 00:39:37.059
Absolutely. And not labeling every human emotional response to things as disorders.

00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:45.344
These are super uncomfortable things. Especially things when somebody has another one is schizophrenia. It's really interesting.

00:39:45.391 --> 00:40:39.489
I've got a woman that's coming on my podcast next month who healed schizophrenia because she identified that the schizophrenia. And most frequently, people who are diagnosed with schizophrenia have severe trauma in their childhood. They have very severe trauma that caused some serious problems in their brain. And instead of medicating them and continuing to perpetuate their suffering because the underlying distress is never addressed, she was able to go and. And she figured it all on her own. It was pretty extraordinary. And she completely healed. She has been symptom free for decades now. And it was because she recognized, this is my brain responding to this severe trauma. I'm not going to call it a disorder. I'm going to recognize the brain is in distress, it needs my help. And we're going. And this is like schizophrenia is like hearing voices, having hallucinations, you know, paranoia, all of those things are very distressing.

00:40:39.880 --> 00:40:43.311
But we need to recognize it's not a disorder. It's the brain asking for help.

00:40:43.416 --> 00:40:54.224
It's trying to protect itself. This is how it's doing it. Michelle, why don't you share with us some messages of hope, a few of your success stories. I've got a few that came to my mind when you were asking me.

00:40:54.391 --> 00:41:59.929
And I think I'll start with the first one. That is actually a friend of mine, her son, her little boy. He was, she's from another country, she doesn't speak English very well. And he was really struggling. He was 11 years old and they've been in the United States since he was I think like five maybe. But his family culture is very different from all the people around him. There's a lot of things that are stressors in his life that would naturally lead to a depressed state. It's a very normal thing. If you look at it from just a strictly objective point of view. That's a normal emotional response to all the things that are going on in his life. Right. But she went to the doctor with him because she was really worried about how depressed he was. And the doctor put him on Prozac and he was on Prozac for about nine months and was not getting better. In fact, he was starting to have a lot of side effects that were causing problems for him. And that's when she talked to me about it. I didn't know anything about it until then and when I found out, I thought who in their right mind gives an 11 year old boy Prozac?

00:42:00.010 --> 00:42:55.438
Like it was just crazy to me that that was the solution that the doctor came up with instead of asking questions. You know, we're, we're so, so convinced in our society that all of these things are disorders that need medication, that we just throw medication at it before we even ask any questions. There's no curiosity, there's no investigation, there's no, you know, and a lot of times I also think that we're looking for a magic bullet treatment. We're looking for something that's just solve the problem with the pill, quick fix. A lot of that comes from the advertising that's done on television. You know, it's, it's really upsetting to me that we're, they're able to advertise these things on TV because we become convinced that that pill is going to fix our problems. And so she and I actually had long conversations about this. And I worked with her because she doesn't speak English very well. I ended up helping her speak with True Hope, this company that I mentioned earlier. And he went through about 10 months of cross titration.

00:42:55.534 --> 00:43:36.092
And this is what I'm talking about. He was on a very low dose of Prozac. It took 10 months to titrate him safely off of that. And it was. Explain to us what cross trit is. Yeah. So when somebody withdraws from. You'll hear the term titrate frequently when it comes to drugs titrating up in your system or titrating down, it's just a buildup or letdown of the medication. And cross titration is what I advocate for if somebody wants to come off of medication. I always advocate for cross titration because what you're actually doing first before you withdraw the medication is giving your brain what it needs to heal.

00:43:36.235 --> 00:44:10.206
You're giving your brain like highly specialized micronutrients that are helping the brain begin the healing process. So what it looked like for this little boy is we, we. He was started on the micronutrients and they kept him on the micronutrients until he started experiencing over medication symptoms. And it looks different for everybody. This is why you need to work with an expert. You need to work with somebody who understands what's happening in the brain and the body. And when he started experiencing these symptoms, then they took a tiny bit of the drug away, just a little bit. And it's depending on the medication.

00:44:10.398 --> 00:46:10.880
Each medication is different so they know how much to take away. And then he had a couple of days of withdrawal symptoms. And for him that was extreme fatigue. He was just exhausted for a couple days and then everything leveled out and he was feeling okay again. And then he went for about three to four weeks at a time where he would be fine for about three to four weeks and then he would start experiencing the over medication symptoms. And then they slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly, gradually withdrew that medication from him. One of the things that is really critical in this process is making sure that you're taking everything when you're supposed to take it. You know, I tell people this is the most important thing you're doing through this. Do you do through this process. You know, if somebody were doing this and they missed doses of their medication or missed doses of their micronutrients, that can cause A lot of problems in this process. You know, I've watched people do it the right way and I've watched people do it the wrong way. And invariably people suffer when they do it the wrong way. When they aren't really dedicated and diligent in this process and making sure that their brain is getting everything it needs, they start experiencing pretty severe withdrawal symptoms. But it was really wonderful with this little boy because when he got through the withdrawal process, he started feeling better, he started behaving in a very healthy way, you know, and I just saw them about a month ago and he's doing great. She said it's the happiest she's seen him. And he's, you know, 12 years old now and going through all the, you know, normal 12 year old boy stuff, but he's doing really well, he's handling everything in a healthy way. And it was just a relief to me to watch that change because it's like I said, these medications are not regulating something and they are dysregulating something. And I had a recent experience in my, my coaching program with, with an adult who a man who was diagnosed with bipolar disorder a number of years ago and has been on try to think.

00:46:10.920 --> 00:47:19.538
I think he was on the medication for seven years and I'm not going to give identifying information about him because I don't want to betray his trust. But he had suffered for a long time and he was on the medication and continued. That's one of the things that I think a lot of times people are saying you have to stay on the medication. But most people continue to experience symptoms on the medication because the underlying source of the distress is never addressed. Were not ever getting to the reason that those symptoms started in the first place. And so he came into the program and it was he and his wife. His wife was his support partner and she was involved in all of the discussions that we had and all of the coaching. And so he went through the cross titration and was very diligent about following all of the instructions that he gave. That mood cycle survival guide was so key, it was so critical in this process because that self awareness, recognizing when you're experiencing over medication, knowing that that's what's happening, knowing what withdrawal looks like, understanding the timeframes of that helped him to create a plan to manage those experiences. And he, by the end of the summer he was completely off all of his medications and doing really well.

00:47:19.594 --> 00:47:45.302
And it made it possible for him to actually utilize therapy in a proactive way. I think that's one of the things that, you know, when I interviewed Professor Moncrief, a lot of times we don't realize that medication can actually sometimes interfere with therapy because you're not able to process emotions in a healthy way. You know, the medications frequently are interfering with the healthy processing of emotions because they are interfering with the neurotransmitters in your brain.

00:47:45.365 --> 00:48:54.170
That's what they're designed to do. Yeah. And so it's. You know, I. A lot of times, there's a lot of hopelessness surrounding all of these diagnoses. And I. I often have people come to me that are parents of children. You know, their children have bipolar or their partner has bipolar. I have one whose grandchild has bipolar, and they. They want me to tell them how to fix them. And I always tell them, you can't help them until they're ready for help. But what you can do is educate yourself. The more information you have and the more you understand this, number one, it helps you understand what's happening in them. And number two, it puts you in a position to actually offer assistance if they ask for it, because you know what to do, you know where to send them, you know what, you know what things will be beneficial to them. You know, and so that's the thing that I always encourage people to do if they have a loved one who's struggling, who is resistance resistant to help, is educate yourself, work on learning more, and be ready to help when they're ready for it. You know, and it may never happen. We have. That's one thing that's really hard, is watching somebody you love suffer and they don't want your help. And you're thinking, I can help you.

00:48:54.550 --> 00:49:40.739
I'm that person for a lot of people. But it's really beneficial if you know how to help them so that you're in a position to do it. If they are ready, when they're ready. Which leads me to My next question is how can we have discussions about mental health with our kids, our grandkids, that would help them, number one, begin to identify what the triggers are and then lead them towards support through therapy. And in the process that you've been. Talking about, I think the first thing is to listen to people. You know, I think so many times we want to just fix the problem that we don't hear what they're saying.

00:49:41.039 --> 00:50:20.039
And that's something that. How do you talk to a teenager, though, who doesn't want to talk about? Create a safe space for them, you know, a place where they feel Loved. You know, I think that that was one of the things that was most helpful to me with my parents was that I felt loved by them. And so when I was in crisis, I turned to them because I felt like they would love me and help me. You know, a lot of times, if you're. If you've got somebody that's constantly judging, and it's really hard not to judge because a lot of. Like I said earlier, the issues that we have with emotional dysregulation often manifest in really disturbing behaviors, right? And so we.

00:50:20.340 --> 00:51:25.242
It's really important to create healthy boundaries. That's one thing that's really important to. I think this. I. I need to make sure that I say this very clearly. It is critical to have healthy boundaries. And if you don't understand what that looks like, you need to seek a therapist yourself. Okay? And that's not. That is just something that a lot of us have never. Are not taught healthy boundaries because our parents were not taught how. Taught healthy boundaries. That was something that I needed when I went through therapy. And as I was going through the healing process myself, I had to recognize, I don't have healthy boundaries with my children. I need to learn how to have healthy boundaries with them. And I was going through the healing process and could see challenges that my children were having, and I wanted to fix them, and they were extremely resistant to any of that help. For example, my oldest daughter, she was. She probably got the worst, you know, of me when she was a child. She was old. She was. I was very sick when she was growing up, and she had a lot of issues that developed because of that dysregulation from me, right?

00:51:25.425 --> 00:52:05.099
And so as I was healing, I could see, oh, my gosh, I caused all this, all these problems for my daughter. I want to help her heal. And so I'm like, okay, we're going to go to therapy, and you're going to do this and you're going to do that. And she was like, leave me alone. Like, I don't want that. I. I don't want any of those things. And our first excursion into therapy was disastrous. You know, it was not a healthy thing. She. It actually made things worse because she was using a lot of the stuff she was learning in therapy as ammunition against us, you know? But I kept working, number one on myself, making sure that I was learning. I. I was working on healing, and I was also working on understanding healthy boundaries. How do I respect my daughter's boundaries? How do I make sure that I. I maintain healthy boundaries for myself.

00:52:05.730 --> 00:52:44.407
And as I did that, it created a relationship that was safer for her. And I think that when, you know, a lot of times we feel like boundaries are harsh or they're unkind or, you know, it's actually necessary in order to maintain a healthy relationship. If you don't have healthy boundaries, you cannot have a healthy relationship. It is impossible. And so it is. You know, you can. If you're. If you don't want to go to therapy, you can read books about it. You know, there's. There's a book called the Dance of Anger. There's a really great book that helps deal with codependency, which a lot of times people struggle with in these types of situations. That's called the language of letting go. That's excellent.

00:52:44.503 --> 00:53:18.019
I'm familiar with that one. And so just learning how to be healthy yourself, learning how to have a healthy dynamic in that relationship creates a place of safety. Children crave security even if they don't say it out loud, even if they even maybe sometimes don't consciously understand it. They are craving security and safety, especially if they've had insecurity in their lives. And so if you can create a sense of safety and security by having healthy boundaries, by having healthy dynamics in your relationship with that person, when they need help, they will know where to go.

00:53:18.400 --> 00:53:54.057
They will know that is a place that's safe for me. That is a person who's safe for me. And that's how you create an environment. Where you can actually help and then go from there. Absolutely. Yeah. Great advice. Okay, well, we have a lot of books I need information on so I can pass to the listeners and your website address, Michelle. It's theupsideofbipolar.com and that's the name of my books, the name of my podcast, all my handles on social media. The upside of bipolar is how you can find me. Great.

00:53:54.114 --> 00:53:57.199
We'll put those that information in the show notes.

00:53:58.420 --> 00:54:08.360
Thanks, Michelle. Your time has been invaluable. I love your perspective on mental health, and I hope that the listeners take that information to heart.

00:54:09.219 --> 00:54:59.090
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. This has been a thoroughly enjoyable conversation. For me as well. I highly recommend all of you listeners to Visit Michelle's website, theupsideofbipolar.com that's also the name of her podcast, which I very much enjoy listening to as well. If you or anyone you know are struggling with bipolar disorder, symptoms or diagnosis, be sure to download Michelle's free mood cycle survival guide that's also at her website. The link is also in the show Notes thanks for joining us today for another episode of Grandparents Raising Grandchildren Nurturing Through Adversity. I encourage you to share both your challenges and and your successes with us. Your story is undoubtedly one someone else needs to hear.

00:54:59.630 --> 00:55:13.650
Submit your stories to the links provided in the podcast information. Your contributions will enrich upcoming conversations, creating a more supportive community in which we can learn and grow together.

00:55:14.750 --> 00:55:33.112
Are you One of the 68% of Americans without a valid will or estate plan? Join us next week for an enlightening episode as we sit down with Oscar vasquez, founder of estatedocprep.com to uncover the critical steps every homeowner should take to protect their assets and family.

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Oscar reveals the often overlooked pitfalls of inadequate estate planning. Discover how the absence of a living trust could plunge your loved ones into a costly and prolonged probate process, eroding up to 8% of your estate's value. But it's not just about the statistics.

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It's about safeguarding your legacy. Oscar's going to share practical insights and real life examples emphasizing the estate planning isn't reserved for the affluent. It's an essential move for anyone who wishes to ensure their life's work secure for future generations. He breaks down complex legal jargon into accessible guidance, empowering you with knowledge to take action now. Don't miss this vital episode as we demystify estate planning and learn how simple proactive measures can alleviate financial and emotional burdens. So tune in to discover how you can save time, money and stress your future self will. Thank you. Thank you for tuning in to Grandparents Raising Grandchildren Nurturing through Adversity Remember, you are not alone.

00:56:39.929 --> 00:56:54.730
Together we can find strength and hope in the face of adversity. Peace be with you, and I pray that you find some time this week to listen to your inner wisdom. Amongst the noise and the pandemonium of this world.