Raising a Transgender Grandchild

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Imagine receiving the news from your cardiologist, revealing that your heart is equivalent to that of a 90 year old's.

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And what if that news became the catalyst for a complete transformation? Enter Lily Payne, a remarkable grandmother battling health and family turmoil while raising her transgender granddaughter, Alyssa. From changing her diet to embracing exercise to taking back her health, Lily's story is one of a warrior's resilience, mental fortitude, and undying love.

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But that's just the beginning. Join us for episode 35, raising a transgender grandchild grandmotherhood redefined welcome to grandparents raising grandchildren nurturing through adversity in this podcast, we will delve deep into the challenges and triumphs of grandparents raising grandchildren as we navigate the complexities of legal, financial, and emotional support. I invite you to join us on a journey of exploring thoughts, feelings, and beliefs surrounding this growing segment of our society. Drawing from real stories and expert advice, we will explore the nuances of childrearing for children who have experienced trauma, and offer valuable resources to guide you through the intricate journey of kinship care.

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We'll discuss how we can change the course of history by rewriting our grandchildren's future, all within a supportive community that understands the unique joys and struggles. This podcast was made especially for you.

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Welcome to a community where your voice is heard, your experiences are valued, and your journey is honored.

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Becoming a grandmother and raising a grandchild is a journey that usually arises from challenging circumstances, and sometimes our little ones have no one else to turn to. In these moments, we find ourselves on the front lines, becoming warriors for their hearts and their futures. And the truth is, if we fall apart, who else do they have to lean on?

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Hindsight? Maybe 2020. But it also gives us the chance to do things differently, to break cycles, and to create stronger foundations for our grandchildren than we had for our own children. Sometimes we have the power to step up, to show up and be the backbone they need.

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Today, I want to share the inspiring story of another incredible woman who is stepping up her game to be there for her grandchildren.

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Her journey reflects the resilience of the human spirit and the profound love that drives us to rise above our struggles.

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Let's celebrate the strength we can wield when we choose to turn our challenges into powerful opportunities for growth and connection, and empower our grandchildren not just to survive their oppressors, but to thrive, fostering self love and resilience to navigate the complexities of this world. I don't know about you, but I don't want to be pressured to change who I am, as long as I'm not hurting anyone else. And that's what I want for my children and my grandchildren, as well, to be a strong, loving, and supportive foundation for them.

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But that's not always what we get, and that's not always what our grandchildren experience from their parents and other people that they trust to raise them. Sometimes we have to find opportunities to show our grandchildren that gender diverse and transgender people exist and belong to many communities who appreciate and love them.

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One grandmother, Lily Payne, is doing just that. Lily, you shared with me a lot, all the way from your background and your early life. You married young.

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You had a couple of children. In your early experiences as a mother. Talk about how that unraveled to where you are now. Okay, great. And thanks for having me. I love to share about what I'm going through, because if there's anything I can say that helps anyone else, I think we need to get that out there. So, yes, I was a young mother. I married my high school sweetheart. I didn't know what I was doing. I came from a dysfunctional family myself, with some abuse and infidelity on my father's side. So I grew up with a lot of insecurities, and I was just ready to get out of the house and get married. I got married at the age of 19.

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We immediately wanted a child, and we had a son.

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And shortly thereafter, my husband fell into drugs and wouldn't work. And I was trying to do everything, and so I just got fed up and I left.

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So, it was just my son and myself for a long time, I was a single mother, and my son started getting some things at school that his teachers were concerned about. So they started asking me, had he been tested for ADD and ADHD and mental problems or learning disabilities?

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And I just really had no clue. As a young mother, we didn't have the Internet, so I didn't have a clue as to what they were talking about. I felt I did not want to start him on medications, and I did not do that. It was really just a struggle for us to get by every day, financially. Adding doctors visits and not really understanding all of that just didn't make sense. I thought he was doing fine. His father had not been seeing him for maybe three years, and he met someone who wanted children and had had miscarriages. So he got remarried, and they started having visitation with my son. And eventually, there were some allegations by my son of sexual child abuse, and that turned into a three year quarantine battle between his father and I. And the new stepmother was, you know, really kind of the leader of all of that. So the accusation started flying. There were a lot of therapists and child protection agency, and we were in two different states, so that even complicated it more. And my son became a victim of this child alienation, you know, on his father's side, because, unfortunately, blamed me for the allegations and wanted to turn my son against me.

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So this is the father of my transgender granddaughter. So I think that's relevant that he has struggled since a child in a divorce situation, in a sexual abuse situation, and other abuses, verbal abuse. He fell into drugs at a very young age. He was young, and his girlfriends got pregnant. So he had one child, which is older than Alyssa, and then he had Alyssa in the second marriage. And so Alyssa was born, and I just had an instant connection with Alyssa. My son and his wife came to live with us. So Alyssa was in my home as a baby, and I was her go to person. Very strong connection. She immediately started showing feminine traits. She was a very pretty baby. She was born male and very pretty baby.

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She used to stroke my hair and say, as she got old enough, she'd say, I want to have long, blonde hair like you.

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Just so you know, she does to this day.

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But we kind of knew from the beginning something was going on. We just didn't know what it was. You have to realize, this was 19 years ago.

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So that's kind of the beginning of the journey.

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Let's talk about Alyssa's journey toward identifying as a female and the family's initial reactions and the challenges that she faced between you and her stepmother, the complicated family dynamics that are involved. Well, the dynamics is that my son and Alyssa's mother got a divorce, and Alyssa was around five years old. And so Alyssa's mother and Alyssa lived with me after that for a while, because they had nowhere to go. And Alyssa started wearing my high heels and exhibiting feminine traits, and her mother was very opposed to that. I understand her concern. I want to make sure I say that, because we're talking 19 years ago. Her mother didn't understand it, but it made her very angry. So her way of handling that was through anger.

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My way was a much softer approach. Just, this is a young child. Let's see what happens. We're not going to encourage anything either way, and then just let the child be a child. So eventually, her mother moved away from me and met a man who thought that Alyssa, at the time, Alyssa's name was Rob, thought that Alyssa was being a prissy little boy, and he would make terrible remarks towards Alyssa. You know, you're just being a sissy, you need to come out and shoot a gun. You need to ride a four wheeler. You need to go fishing.

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You need to do boy things. You need to toughen up. And he would purposely do things to toughen Alyssa up, and it would make her cry, and it would make her feel like she was never good enough. And she was never going to, say, satisfy him, and he was never going to love her. And eventually, Alyssa's mother had this man adopt Alyssa, because when they got married, he said he wanted to adopt her, or he wasn't going to marry her mother, because he wanted to make sure he had control of disciplining her like a father.

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My son was completely out of the picture at this time. Her mother had made it so difficult for him to see Alyssa, and with him being much younger than me, he just kind of couldn't deal with it. And he already, you know, with his mental issues, he just couldn't deal with it. So I continued to see Alyssa on weekends, and that went on until she was about eight years old.

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Alyssa used to cry every time that I dropped her off with her mother after a visit. I want my nana.

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I want my nana. And her mother would say, if you don't stop crying, you're not going to see your nana anymore. I'm tired of this crying. So Alyssa really wasn't even allowed to cry in her home. Because that was kind of a sissy thing for a boy to do. And so, at that time, all of a sudden, my visits ended, and I knew it was coming, because I knew Alyssa had been telling me this.

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And she was extremely emotional. At the age of eight, the last time I had dropped her off with her mother, she cried an hour home. When I left her, she was crying.

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And I was telling her, please don't cry. I'll be back.

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Please don't cry. And I knew her mother was going to end it. I could just feel it. I was not allowed to see Alyssa for many years after that.

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And it went on about ten years. And during that time, she had several stepfathers, went through divorces with her mother, and from what she told me, became suicidal. And just knew that she was not a boy, that she was a girl.

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And then you ran into her a few years later.

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Well, in that. So at that time, what age was she when you discontinued being able to see her? That was eight years old, and so I didn't see her for many years. And then I. Because she didn't live in the same city as I did.

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And I did try to see her on the Internet, and at some point, she got on the Internet, and. And she was making YouTube videos and doing things like that so I could see her, but I couldn't talk to her, not through a legal order, just because I knew it would cause problems. So I saw her at Walmart several times when her mother moved into my city and just didn't know what to do and tried to say hi, and did say a hi a few times, but I. It was clear the mother wanted me to leave and not be there, and told me to leave several times when I ran into them, maybe five or six times in a five year period. And so I. That must have been hard for you. Oh, it was terrible. I would start shaking all over, because, to me, I felt like my child had died. I felt such severe grief. I couldn't sleep. I had nightmares.

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I cried till I didn't think I could cry anymore, and just. I would be shaking so badly and crying in Walmart and knowing people were probably watching me and just feeling horrible about it. So, yeah, it was pretty bad. During this time, I did meet a very nice man, and we got married, and he was very supportive, and he would let me cry on his shoulder, and he would say to me, when Alyssa's 18, she's going to look for you, and you and Alyssa are going to have a great relationship.

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Then as I went through the Taco bell drive and. Is that your husband? That's my husband, yes, my husband, Dave.

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He's wonderful, and I'm very lucky to have his. Very supportive of your relationship with Alyssa.

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Very lucky. And I know not all grandmothers or grandfathers have that on the other side, but I do, so. And are they close? Yes, they're close. Is your husband? Yes.

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Great. So I went through Taco Bell. Alyssa was in the drive through. She was taking my order.

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She handed me my food, and I said, hey, I'm your nana. I miss you. You're pretty. Because by now, she transitioned into a girl, and she looks, you know, totally different, but I can recognize her face, you know, it's still that same sweet little face it always was. And so I said, you know, I want to talk to you. I want to see you. I love you. And that's as much as I could say in a drive through. But I started the shaking again. I was shaking all over, so I knew she had an Instagram account, so I reached out to her, and I followed her, and she allowed me to follow her, and we started talking. I was sending her messages, and I said, hey, I have some money for you. I have all your Christmas cards, all your birthday cards. Let's get together. And so she decided that she would do that, and she had to hide it from her mother. She's still living with her mother. So we initially went to dinner and got some pizza, and I gave her her gifts, and we had just a wonderful connection.

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And the feeling was mutual then. So she had missed you as well? Well, the feeling was mutual. However, she told me that she was shaking out of fear in the taco bell drive through because she had been told so many horrible things about me, what a horrible person I am. And, you know that there's just things she doesn't know about me that she would think was horrible, too, if she ever got with me. A total alienation, which is very sad for her because it caused her a lot of trust issues. To hear this about her nana, who she trusted and loved so deeply, caused her a lot of, I would think, a lot of social anxiety, but mainly trust and separation anxiety. She has severe separation anxiety because, you know, somebody she loved was just ripped from her period. That's it. You can't see that person ever again. So it took her about, she said about three visits with me, even though she seemed very comfortable when I talked to her, to totally start saying, this is crazy, this is the same person I remembered that I loved when I was a child. How could my mother ever say this person would be bad for me? All these years, I've been so alone. So alone.

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And this person lived down the street from me, my grandmother. So within about two months, well, she wasn't driving at the time. She was 18, so she wasn't driving. And I said, oh, why aren't you driving? I was driving at 16. So she said, well, my mom won't teach me to drive. And I said, well, I'll teach you to drive. So we saw each other for a year behind her mother's back. She was terrified if her mother found out, she'd throw her out of the house, and she had nowhere to live.

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I was living in a very small house, and I already had my another granddaughter living with me. And so I told my husband, we need to build on a room for Alyssa because she's not happy at home. She's tried to kill herself. She's not going to make it there. She needs us.

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And we got on it, and we built her a little tiny home behind our house, you know, an apartment size so that she could be self sufficient there and have her space, but still be close to us. So we worked on that for one year.

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My husband worked every weekend. We did most of the work ourselves.

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And about a month before that year was up, she came to live with us. She says, I just can't take it there anymore. I'll sleep on the floor. And she got the courage, and she told her mother, she said, I am seeing my grandmother. She's coming to my high school graduation, and I'm seeing her. And her mother said, well, I don't agree with that, but it's your choice because you are 18.

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And so shortly after that, she moved into my home. Has your relationship with your daughter improved, or has it stayed the same since then? You mean her mother. I'm sorry, her mother. My ex daughter in law. No, my ex daughter in law still does not accept me in any way.

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She's still. Well, Alyssa has a half sister. She has several half sisters, but she has a half sister that lives with her mother, and she wants her to come and spend the night and hang out with her and stop a relationship with her, but her mother will not let her come here as a long as I'm here. So Alyssa has graduated from high school. Yes, but she had a lot of struggles that she had to face in high school. I remember that you told me she made the transgender change and then went back to high school as a woman. Right.

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Or a young girl. And she suffered a lot of abuse because of that. Oh, yes, suffered a lot of abuse just in a couple of days when she went back, and she had asked the teacher to call her by her new name, Alyssa. But the teacher refused and would do a roll call every day and specifically call her by Rob. She wouldn't answer because she was, you know, like, I told you to call me Alyssa. So the other kids would get mad, and they would say, well, why don't you answer? We all know you're Rob. That's when she tried to commit suicide. The first time is she went home and tried to kill herself. She had to go over to a mental institution or facility, and they diagnosed her with bipolar and depression at that time, and so it was very hard for her.

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Luckily, her mother saw the need to get her out of school after that suicide attempt, and they enrolled her in a night school, which was much better, and she thrived at that night school that they had. So she was able to graduate high school. Has she had any relationships as a woman since she made the transgender change? She started seeing some guys that were older than her while she was still living with her mother, and she actually would see, sneak out of the house and meet these guys.

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And she didn't understand why she was doing it, but I think she was just so desperate for somebody to love her, especially a man's love. She didn't have her real father. Her adopted father was very critical, and we since have realized he's very transphobic, that he just really does not like transgender people at all.

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So she had some bad experiences. Experiences. She even had gotten raped by one of these guys that she was with that was going on. And she opened up to me about that, so I kind of knew what was going on, which was another reason I felt like I needed to get her here with me is to help her through that process and help her grow and learn that you can love yourself, and you don't have to go after a man to love, you know, somebody to love you right now. Let's learn to love yourself.

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So, she did work on that a lot, and most every guy that she went out on dates with, most every one of them seemed to just be trying to experiment. They had not been out with a transgender person before. Alyssa's very attractive, so there are plenty of guys that would say, I want to take you on a date. And then they would wind up just ghosting her or trying to have sex on the first night. And she was moving away from that and moving into, hey, I respect myself. I love myself. I want more than this. So she does have a boyfriend now.

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That is a nice young man. He's young, so there's a lot of growing to do. He had never dated a transgender person. He did not identify as gay. He identified as straight. And he tells Alyssa he loves her. I. And how long have they been together or dating? About three months. So it's still new, but it's longer than anything else she's ever had, and it's challenging.

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That brings its own challenges, because, you know, your first relationship, there's a lot of growth.

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Right. So what would you say are Alyssa's greatest emotional challenges that she's coping with right now? She's very insecure. She feels like if she does anything wrong, people are going to leave her. She feels because she struggled with a lot of abandonment issues.

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She angers very quickly because since her other diagnosis, she's also been going to therapy, and we've gone through several therapists, but she has been diagnosed with BPD, which is something we have studied and feel. Most of that was developed during her traumatic childhood. And her mother is a very quick to anger person. And when you're around this your whole life, you're going to pick up these same behaviors. So she's very quick to anger, but she has also learned to come back and say, I'm sorry, and she's trying to grow up.

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She's very deep, and daily she reflects on her actions, and she's trying to do better every day. But she does struggle severely with dysphoria. She feels dysphoric because she has not had any surgeries yet. So although she's on estrogen and testosterone blockers, she looks like a girl. When you see her. She still gets identified as a male by some people who will go out of their way to call her sir, and this is another breakdown for her. Then she becomes dysphoric. She'll stare in the mirror. She'll say, do I look like a man? Do I look like a man? Do I look like a girl? I need breast implants.

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I don't want to have lower body surgery. I'm terrified of that. But I want to be a girl. So what do I do?

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So those are a lot of her insecurities.

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I know you're a very intuitive person. You're a talented artist, and you have a close relationship and have most of Alyssa's life. What's your impression of what is best for Alyssa?

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What's your impression of the struggle she's going through and where she needs to take that to have a life that makes her feel successful? Well, the first thing is she needs to feel love and have people that are patient have a lot of patience with her, and she's got to learn to love herself.

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That is the number one thing that I teach her, that she's powerful, she's brave, and that she's a beautiful person. And our outward appearance, even though she is very beautiful, is not the most important thing. This beautiful light inside of her shines, and she's unique.

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She's the only one in billions of people like her. This is the number one thing I try to get across to her, even when she's struggling in her relationship, and she feels like, maybe this isn't going to work with this guy. Maybe I'm going to lose his love. She's crashing and burning. This is a cycle daily that we go through. Sometimes we'll go two or three days, they're okay. Then, you know, she comes to my house, or, well, she's at my house. She just lives in an apartment. But she'll come over to my side, and she'll just be pacing the floor.

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She paces the floor nonstop, even on medications.

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Mood stabilizers and antidepressants and bipolar medications. She just paces the floor constantly. She's.

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So I just try to tell her to relax, and I'm trying to teach her relaxation techniques because I think that's another. I think that's another go to thing. So she's going to the gym and exercising and trying to do things, Hydra massage things to help her relax, because I think she has a lot of anxiety. But just really the love. The love and just her knowing that I'm here for her and that if I. Anything happens to me, she's there for herself and I'll always be there with her. So. Because she worries. She's still got separation anxiety. She worries, you're my grandmother, you're older. What if I lose you? She knows I have some health problems. So we talk about it, and I think that's important to give her that strength.

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I know. One of the things that I think we are learning as grandparents, in raising this generation of children, there's a lot more talk about diversity and neurodiversity. We have to encourage and help people understand that no two people are born the same.

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No two people are born with the same issues. And no matter what we've done, that we have a right to be loved and a right to be respected. The balance between the struggles that we have and the days that we feel that we are on our good side, those happen all the time. I don't think it's any different for anyone. The main thing that we are all trying to learn at the same time, our children are trying to learn, and many people never learn this in their life, is that we don't let the downs times get us to down, that downs are normal and ups are normal, and that life is a combination of both and always will be. Wouldn't you say? Bess and I discuss a lot, too, the ups and downs, but also the positives and the negatives, because she grew up in a very negative environment and had a lot of negatives every day.

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Yelling, screaming, people saying they hate their children, you know, calling our sissy a lot of negatives. So you can't have 18 years of negatives and expect somebody to be this wonderful, positive person all of a sudden. So we try to go through exercises where for every negative that goes through her brain, which she says it's like, like a race train going through her brain, negative that we try to come up with a positive thought to combat. It's not like I'm telling her, you can't think these thoughts or you're not going to have these. You can totally chase them away. I still have negative thoughts, but the difference is you've got to come up with a positive, something positive for all the negatives, and start filling your tank up with positives, because that's the only way to have a nice, happy life, is to fill up your tank with a lot of positives and combat the negatives. So that's the other thing we do.

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Now. You have some health challenges that you've been dealing with at our age. We often do. And your husband has now been diagnosed with Parkinson's disease.

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How have these experiences motivated you to prioritize your own health? She motivated me 150% when I went to the doctor and the cardiologist, and she said, I have the heart of a 90 year old woman because I have plaque in my veins. She said, you've had so much emotional trauma that hits you that this can cause this cortisol release.

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So I immediately stopped eating sugar.

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I have not had sugar in probably six months. I mean, nothing. And I wanted a cookie so bad yesterday, I couldn't stand it. But I said, no, no. If you're going to be around for these grandchildren, if you're going to see them grow up and reach the level of being a productive, happy human being that they need to be, they need you a lot longer than right now. You can't go now.

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So I started exercising. We all go to the gym now. I'm very careful what I eat, and I love to eat, but I won't have a doughnut. I just won't do it. I can't do it. I have to focus on my health, and I go every route.

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I go holistic, I go to my regular doctor. I study YouTube, anything I can do. And it's all with the goal of being here with these kids to help take care of them and give them the security they need in life, give them as much as I can, and. To keep our mental health where it needs to be to be able to cope with all these issues. We can't sit and wallow in it. We just have to get up and do it and take the action, even when we don't feel like it sometimes, and also take the rest when we know we must, when we need it.

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But, you know, mentally, we have to be warriors. We have to be warriors. We have to get up every day and put on our armor and say, I'm still a young person. I can handle this. If I walk around saying I'm too old to take care of my grandchildren, I'm too old for this and that. Then my life is basically over. So I just choose to get up and say, I'm still a young person. I can train my body to be healthy. I can train my mind to be healthy. And I can overcome the illness with a good, positive attitude.

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And getting the nutrition in my body. Mine, I think, is more about getting proper nutrition in my body and making it strong from the cell out. And that's going to help my brain and my neurological and my energy level, everything. So, yeah, we can do it. We can do it. We just have to focus on doing it and want to do it and not give up. And maybe this is our okay. That's okay. It's not what we thought we wanted, maybe.

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But maybe this is what was intended for us. And so we just have to be accepting of that and take it and do the best we can with it, because it's really another chance. When we were young parents, we made a lot of mistakes. Now we're grandparents. It's another chance to go in there and do a lot of things better than we did when we were 20, you know? And so I look at it that way, Lily. I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks for sharing your story.

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It's powerful. It's important. I know there are many other people going through the exact same story that you just shared with us. They can hear you because they know they're not alone.

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I probably needed to get all of that out.

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Thank you for tuning in to grandparents, raising grandchildren, nurturing through adversity. Remember, you are not alone. Together we can find strength and hope in the face of adversity.

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Peace be with you. And I pray that you find some time this week to listen to your inner wisdom amongst the noise and the pandemonium of this world.