5 Key Steps for Raising A Complex Child

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I hope you'll join us for this inspiring new episode featuring Michelle Chouari, the incredible mom of complex kid and the driving force behind collective wisdom for complex kids, Michelle has become her son's greatest advocate, navigating the intricate journey of raising a child with unique needs. Over the years, she's discovered the power of reevaluating and prioritizing family dynamics to ensure children receive the best care possible. In this episode, Michelle will unveil her five key steps for raising a complex child, offering invaluable insights and practical advice for parents on a similar path.

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From moving through confusion to achieving clarity, Michelle's passion for empowering families shines through.

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Whether you're a grandparent or parent seeking guidance, or someone who wants to just understand the world of complex children better, this episode is a must listen.

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Tune in to discover how Michelle transforms challenges into opportunities for growth and connection.

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Welcome to grandparents raising grandchildren nurturing through adversity in this podcast, we will delve deep into the challenges and triumphs of grandparents raising grandchildren as we navigate the complexities of legal, financial, and emotional support. I invite you to join us on a journey of exploring thoughts, feelings, and beliefs surrounding this growing segment of our society. Drawing from real stories and expert advice, we will explore the nuances of child rearing for children who have experienced experience trauma and offer valuable resources to guide you through the intricate journey of kinship care.

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We'll discuss how we can change the course of history by rewriting our grandchildren's future, all within a supportive community that understands the unique joys and struggles this podcast was made especially especially for you.

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Welcome to a community where your voice is heard, your experiences are valued, and your journey is honored.

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When I first picked up my two grandchildren, I found myself plunged into a sea of uncertainty. I had no idea what was going on in their little minds or how to begin unraveling the signs they were showing.

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Balancing their needs with the challenges my husband and I faced in our own personal lives felt overwhelming.

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It was as if I was suddenly navigating a world without a map. And that's why I'm thrilled about our upcoming episode featuring Michelle Chouaree. As a mom who has walked the path of raising a complex child, Michelle gives us a step by step guideline with invaluable insights and guidance to all of us who may feel lost at times in our parenting or caregiving journey.

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Her experience in advocating for her son and co founding the collective wisdom for complex kids support group offers a beacon of hope and clarity.

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It's a conversation that promises to illuminate your path and perhaps offer that roadmap we've all been searching for.

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Michelle and I started our conversation by discussing our feelings about the increasing number of children that we're seeing in the Gen X generation who seem to be facing more and more complex developmental, biological, and mental challenges. First of all, thanks for having me, Laura. I appreciate it.

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Yeah, we were, we were talking, we're chatting, and we decided, let's record this. So I feel like there's a couple of things that are happening right now with this generation.

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One is, I feel like there's a lot more awareness that is brought into neurodiverse children, children who have different diagnosis, children who are different. I can tell that being, I was born and raised in Brazil, I have a brother who probably would have been diagnosed with autism when he was younger. But back then, there were no people. It was such a new diagnosis. You know, back then, these kids were just the little crappy kids in school, right? Like, they're the ones that are doing the things they're not supposed to be doing, and they're the ones getting in trouble all the time. And so back then, that's all they were. They were the troublemakers. And now there's such more of an awareness when it comes to diagnosis and anything that comes along with, related to that.

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Not like neurodiverse is the word that I'm probably going to use, or I actually like to call them complex because it encompasses so many things that, you know, under that complex umbrella, and you don't necessarily need to have a diagnosis. We didn't have a diagnosis for years and years and years, but I, going back to the generation, I think that that is one of the things that people are more aware. And also I feel like they are, because there's that awareness and because of everything that has gone in the world, there's a need for. I don't think that certain parents are really apt and willing to deal with these issues.

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Like, there's a generation, and I'm not saying this is for everybody, but there is a part of the newer generation that I don't want to deal with these things.

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And so I think that that's why you're seeing Laura, kind of what we were talking about, grandparents getting involved in a lot of the caring of children, and not just neurodiverse children, but neurotypical children also.

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Our own children are oftentimes they've passed away. So that's why we have the kids. But usually, more often than not, it's because the children are struggling with mental issues or addiction, which, as we were saying, there were issues that weren't spoken about. And if you go back and look at the generation two generations ago, you might have found someone who was mentally ill or someone who had an alcohol problem or a drug problem. But when we don't listen to what our kids are telling us, then it turns into a problem later on in life. And then we see that come out in many different forms. Sometimes the developmental issues that we see when they're older are because nobody wanted to talk about it or didn't know how to deal with it or didn't know how to label it. Not that, as you said, necessarily needed to be labeled, but these complex situations we just want to gloss over. Or our parents did, or our grandparents did, and they became the problem kids and the problem kids, which are now our children, have babies and then someone else ends up taking care of them. And if we as grandparents can't help them understand what is going on, both what's happened in their lives personally, the trauma that they've seen or how to cope with their neurod, then we see that we're passing that on to another generation.

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If we don't raise kids that are strong, if we don't raise kids that are loved, then we've got a lot of problems in the next generation. And I think that's part of what we're seeing now. Of course, there's other complications.

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Yeah. The, the interesting thing is that the, the conversations are being held in social media, right? And that is where my, my generation, I didn't, I mean, I didn't use computers and, you know, and I am 48 years old right now, but I remember when I had to use, you know, have a coin to call home or call collect to get somewhere to get through to somebody. And, you know, we didn't have cell phones, we didn't have computers. And so any, everything is doing is going through social media.

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So the conversations, the communication that you was that you were talking about, we are not having that kind of a communication with our kids. I just recently took away, I have a ten year old and a seven year old and I took away their iPads. I said, this is not okay. Like, you are not going to call me from your bed to ask me to bring you water. That is not happening.

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Okay? So, I mean, if we need to use technology to communicate, I need water, mommy. Like, that is a big, big, big problem.

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Yeah. Technology, I think, is a wonderful thing when it's used correctly. And we as parents and grandparents are having to learn how to manage that, it is still another tool. And if it's not used properly, then it's actually debilitating our kids from learning how to communicate.

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Yes. And I will tell you, with my son, with my complex kid, he had a lot of outbursts, and he just has his meltdowns and he has his moments. And for many years, we actually had. He loved breaking things around the house.

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As soon as we took away the iPad, it stopped. Yeah. And what we realized is that he was watching on YouTube how to break a phone, how to put toys or something behind the tires of a car so it would go over and break it. And we found a computer. One of his school computers had disappeared.

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And we were cleaning up the backyard, and I found the computer completely smashed. And as soon as I took away the iPad, those behaviors stopped.

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And really, it goes back to what.

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What we're going through. The new generation is all attached to. And like you said, there's amazing things about technology, amazing things. Things that my son back then probably wouldn't have been able to use a touchscreen computer to be able to learn how to read or write. But at the same time, there is the bad part that comes with it, the misinformation, the addicting things that they watch on YouTube or TikTok or whatever, you know? And so. And those things lead to developmental issues and also behavioral issues. So. Well, when we. When obviously, when we see kids. I'm learning this myself, that when I seed the kid that talks about something that's hurt on his body or if he is breaking things, that that's an expression of something else that's going on. But I do notice that when my grandkids watch certain games, which may seem harmless, like I'm thinking of Roblox is one of them. I found that when the kids watchdevelop roadblocks, they get much more aggressive.

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Yes. Which I always thought that was a pretty simple game. There isn't really a lot of. It's. It's not like machine guns and stuff like that, but it's still. It makes them more. We have rules now about when they can watch it. Also, I noticed that, you know, some of these family reality shows that kids watch on YouTube, which we have a restriction on their tablets for what they can watch, but still, some of them are constant action. Constant action.

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The kids just get really worked out, and they think that they need to be entertained the whole time, and everything has to be very active because they're watching this. And that's what they're you know, that's what they're reacting to.

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So, yeah, I know there are issues about it. Plus, kids that are ADHD anyway, they want constant stimulation.

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And even the kids that don't have ADHD, Laura, my son has ADHD, my daughter doesn't.

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And they want to be entertained 24/7 so.

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Well, think about how we are with our phones. If you don't really know what to do, if you're not always knowing who's trying to get a hold of you or you can't make a phone call because you're used to being able to make a phone call at any moment when you want to, you don't have to go to a pay phone and put a coin in. Instant gratification. That's what that's called, right?

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Yes, we all are that way. Tell us about how. Tell us about how you, as you became aware of this as a younger mother with your kids, what were the developmental challenges that you came across?

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What was the process that you went through to figure out how to cope with it better? And I. How did that get you started on the collective wisdom for complex kids? So my son was born very premature, actually.

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It was crazy. It was a crazy pregnancy. And I was in the hospital for three weeks on bedrest.

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He came when he was 32 weeks, and he was a NICU baby. And the one thing that they do when you have NICU babies at the hospital that we delivered is they follow the child through a period of time. So every time we would go in, he would be behind on something. So then they started looking at it and going, hey, here's something to watch for. Hey, he's not quite doing this. And so at that time, ten years ago, and I think that still to this day, a lot of times when a child is not meeting their milestones, I got lucky that I had somebody who was telling me these things, because a lot of moms, they just kind of let it go. They don't know any better if it's your first child. So we knew that this was happening, and we started early intervention. Right away. I fought for it, and we got it. And then we started getting diagnosis here and there. So the first diagnosis he had was called childhood apraxia of speech. It's a motor planning issue. He couldn't talk. My son didn't say his first word until he was four years old. And it was more. It wasn't even mom or dad. It was more because he wanted my husband to throw him on the bed more. And that was his first we actually have it on video, and it's one of the cutest videos. And I treasure that. I cherish it with all my heart.

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But, you know, you see these things now as a mom, when you're going through this, it's, I wondered up until three years ago when we found out that he has this rare genetic disorder. And you're going to laugh at this, but I wondered if all these things were happening because I ate too much taco Bell or I drank too much doctor pepper when I was pregnant with him or I didn't count the kicks of the way that I do. You know what I mean? It's like, what did I do as a mom to cause this on my child? Because that's what, where you go as a mom, that's the guilt one. It is mama guilt, mama guilt. All like, that is all I could think of. And for many, many years, that is how I felt. And like I said, it wasn't until I got the genetic disorder diagnosis that I was like, okay, there was nothing that I could have done because this was done when, you know, he, like, when he was formed. So it was, it's his DNA. There was me eating.

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Me eating Taco Bell didn't do this to my childhood.

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When you're a mom and you find out you're pregnant, you have this expectation of a child. There's no way that you don't. And with my husband, for example, I like to use his because he loves sports.

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So I know that in his mind, when he knew he was going to have a son, that his son was going to be an NFL football player or an NBA player, right.

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That is just the first thing that he was going like, I'm sure that this is where it went. And we all have that. We have those expectations, and then when things are not, they're not meeting those expectations, then you look to yourself and then you start looking for other things. I had to get out of blaming myself and actually helping him.

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Right? So when you, when you start getting those, when you have that internal feeling, which I like, I call it a mama gut instinct, there's something going on. The sooner you get help, the sooner things will change for you because then you will have a plan. You'll be able to develop a plan that will pull you away from that mom of guilt in a way, because you are actually doing something for your child. So even now, as a grandparent, I have to work that I think we do as human beings and individuals, no matter what our situations are.

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So part of being better parents being better grandparents is getting over the guilt about what you don't do perfectly and getting the support that you need to focus on the positive and continue to move forward in the best way that you can.

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Yes. We have so many more tools now than I did as a mother, even. Yeah. Yes, I bet. So had we done this genetic testing a year before, I wouldn't have known because it wasn't even.

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They weren't able to even test for this genetic disorder. And this is just TBRI. I'm not very familiar with that genetic disorder. Yeah, it's. He is one out of 190 kids in the world with this.

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So it is very, very rare.

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And they think that it's an.

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That there's a lot more kids out there with it, but the what it causes intellectual disabilities, dyspraxia, developmental delays, speech delays, autistic traits, autism, and there's adhd, epilepsy. There's lots of things that, like, the list goes on and on and on, but there's not a lot of research out there, so we don't know the extent of it and we don't. And there's no treatment, of course, for it. So we're kind of using what I call, you know, we put a band aid here and there, like, so ADHD. Okay, let's put a band aid on the ADHD. Okay. He has childhood of praxis. Speech was a speech disorder, so put a band aid on that. You kind of have to treat these specific issues because you can't treat it as a whole because there's no treatment for the whole thing.

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So that was an incredible thing to receive. Right. It was right before Christmas, and I was like, oh, my gosh, thanks. You know what a Christmas gift.

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But like you said, there's now I know. And you have those resources to know that this is what it is.

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And you, what you're providing to grandparents, you are a resource right now to them. Things that they didn't have before.

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So now that you know, what do you think is the best way to support your child?

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He's obviously different than the other kids that he sees growing up around him. What are the main things that you focus on to help him develop, to be a successful human being, to be happy with life?

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Yeah. So we. When I sat down, for years, I've been the one that people have gone to, to ask about these things.

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And I sat down and I started thinking about what did I do? What did I do during this process to get my child to where he is right now?

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And that's kind of where this whole collective wisdom for complex kids came about. It was like, okay, I did these things. So the first thing that I did was I had to get a team involved, a medical team, because there are so many diagnoses involved that I had to get the team together.

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I call it thrive. My method is called thrive. So that's the team is the team getting a team together to help your child?

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The age is the resources, the helping systems is what I like to call them.

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And this is probably one of the hardest things to navigate because you have to navigate insurance companies, you have to navigate school districts, and you have to navigate state programs.

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And I think that this is probably one of the biggest need that moms and parents that have these complex kids, this is the biggest need that they have.

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There's not enough out there and they don't know how to, how to help their child. So I've learned how to navigate that. I'm still learning to this day. But that was a very important thing because he's receiving, you know, that's how he gets his services, that's how he gets his speech therapy at school. That's how he gets insurance through the state and those things. So that is the hardest thing to learn, but that is a very important thing. And that's how I'm helping him is through this. The other part is relationships. You have to make sure, like your family. I can't tell you how many times I thought I was going to get a divorce through this.

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Right. Because, oh, my gosh, how hard is it to have a child with an issue or complexities? And you have, like I was saying, you have those expectations and those expectations don't come. And I also have a seven year old who doesn't understand why her brother is the way that he is. So that is another thing that you. Have to look at your social group.

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You end up finding there aren't many people that want to spend time around a mom who has a kid that is demanding a lot of you. And that is part of the whole thing, too, is community resources. You have to have your, you have to have your village.

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You have to. There's no way around it. Yeah, a village is what's going to get you through this. Other moms that understand what you're going through.

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So other parents and we don't. We hang out with some of the parents that have neurotypical children, but it's a lot harder, especially if you're going to do family outings. It's a lot harder. Yes.

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So and we saw, in the beginning, we saw a lot of people not inviting us.

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We went from having all these invitations to like, okay, well, I guess not so much anymore. What do you find? Well, for you, as a.

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As a group, for your community.

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So for me, it's. I have my village, I have my mom's that we have a text thread, and it's like, I am outside Drake's room right now holding the door because he's destroying everything inside right now.

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And I am laughing with, no, it's true. Like, you gotta hold onto the door and.

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And then you have to put locks on the window because he's jumping out the window after he destroyed his whole entire room.

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And these are things that just happen. Like, with these near, you know, it happens. These meltdowns happen. And you have to have those people who you can go to and just say, please tell me it's gonna be okay. Please tell me it's gonna be okay. And so that has helped me tremendously. There are people in my life that I couldn't have done what I've done to this point without them. There's no way.

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And I love them, and I love my friends, and Drake loves their kids because we hang out. Yeah. And so they have that relationship.

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But I have to say two more things, lord, because these are very important to me. One is, as a mother, as a parent of a complex kid, if you don't take care of yourself, you can't take care of your child.

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So self care is.

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It is so in the thrive list.

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Oh, validation. It's integration.

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The v is validation, which is the celebration.

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So you celebrate every single achievement it can be.

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He took his medicine without spitting it out. Yay. You know, or I'll tell you a story, because I love the story. We. About four months ago, we decided to go hiking.

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And you're an outdoors person, so you'll understand this.

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My husband and I, we used to go hiking. We used to go camping. We did all those things, all the outdoor stuff, and we have not been able to go on a hike. Every time we've tried, we would get to halfway through the trip to get to the mountain to go on a hike, or we would get to the car and there would be a meltdown. And then about four months ago, we decided to go. And we're on the hike, and I look back and I go, oh, my gosh, we are hiking. This is happening for the first time. So I pulled out my phone, of course, you know, and I video, and I'm like, we are going on a hike.

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This has never happened. And my son is ten years old. We've never done this before. So celebrated.

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We threw a party that night because we did.

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We went on a hike. And those are the small things that you need to celebrate because if you don't, you won't get through.

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I read last night that sadness is an important part of life because it makes the celebrations all that much better. You have to have the opposites, right? The opposites, or you won't know. I love that. Love it. But, yeah, it's true. And e e is expect a miracle. Because it will happen. Oh, I love it. It will happen. It will come. Like, you will go on a hike, your child will say his first word.

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Your child will walk and really have to celebrate the miracles, don't we? Yes. Yes.

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Small miracles still important.

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You do all these things and it's going to pay off somehow.

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Like, it will. It will come. If you do what you need to do for your child, if you follow these steps, the miracle will come.

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Even if it might be a minor miracle for some parents. It is. But it will happen.

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It will. It will come. And the grief is so tremendous through the processes that we go through with these kids because it's so challenging. But they're temporary. Yes. And that makes the good stuff even better. Yes. It's a, it's a very intense way to live. But I found that if you use the things that you're talking about and you actively use them, I mean, you have to remember that grief passes. You have to remember that challenges are you get over them. You have to look for the miracles and celebrate them. And if you do, in many ways, I think we as parents or grandparents to complex kids have amazing lives. I don't want to say I would, I would want anyone to have to go through the things that you've been through, the things that I've been through. But really, if we can then teach those kids what you're living, the way that you're living, and they can live that way, too. These kids can do amazing things. They have a lot of great lessons to teach other people. Mm hmm.

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And in a way, I know that this is, I don't know. For me, my son has amazing qualities that I see and that is not as easy to see in other kids like he is. He feels you like you're crying, he cries with you, you're laughing, he laughs with you. He has this way of these emotions that he absorbs those things. And so that is one of his biggest qualities, really. And that just makes you love them for so much more for those moments.

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Absolutely. What are you doing with collective wisdom for complex kids? This is young. This is young right now.

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I'm having so much fun doing this. I've been on podcasts. I'm trying to get the word out to people that this is a need. There's a need out there. And parents who have these complex kids, they should be looking at all of these steps that I talked about. It's important to your child. If you don't start early intervention, it just delays everything for your children. So I'm trying to get that word out there. I'm speaking. I am talking to parents. Parents are looking me up for help with school district issues and trying to set up a team. Just really getting that, that support, that, that's what I'm trying to give them. So that's what I'm doing. The future of wisdom for complex kids. I think it's going to be. I want to make this even bigger. I really do. I want speech therapists to come in. I want occupational therapists to help. I want people to have that resource and that community that we need.

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We do have a Facebook group. It's called Thrive.

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And it's under wisdom, the number four complex kids.

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And anybody can join. And it is. It's a community where we talk real talk.

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I do some trainings. I talk over like, you know, we talk about self care, we talk about celebrations. We talk about ieps at the school district.

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We talk about how to find a developmental pediatrician.

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We talk about what kind of speech therapy is what you need for your child, depending on where you are.

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And I do those trainings and I honestly, like, I'm just excited to be able to help some of these parents that are going through it. Do you have a website, Michelle? Yes. Everything you're going to find, it's wisdom number four, complex kids. So that is my Facebook and my Instagram and my website, YouTube. Everything is wisdom number four complex kids.

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That's wonderful. I'm so glad to be able to refer people to you and to that website and to have a community that they can share. Do you have any advice to give to grandparents? Anything special that you'd like to say before we go?

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This is what I tell everybody.

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Celebrate those moments that gets you through everything. If you are raising a child, if you are the grandparent, wherever you are, and not just with a complex kid in general. Right. Celebration.

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The small steps. Look at what you're doing.

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Right. Don't look so much at what is not working. Just look at the good things in life and you'll be so much happier for that. And you will be well.

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And your complex kit will be well also.

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That's great advice, Michelle. Thanks.

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Thank you. Thanks for having me, Laura. It's been fun.

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It's been wonderful. Just to summarize, Michelle's formula for working with complex kids is called thrive. The t is for having a good medical team, h is for help and resources, r solid relationships and a community to support you.

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I integration of self be sure to have good self care. Take care of yourself before you take care of everyone else. V is for victory. Be sure to celebrate and e expect a miracle. You can find out more information about Michelle's thrive groups on her facebook site, Wisdom for the number four complex kids, also on Instagram and our website at Wisdom again, the number four complexkids.com thanks for joining us today for another episode of grandparents raising grandchildren. Nurturing through adversity I encourage you to share both your challenges and your successes with us. Your story is undoubtedly one someone else needs to hear. Submit your stories to the links provided in the podcast information. Your contributions will enrich upcoming conversations, creating a more supportive community in which we can learn and grow together. Thanks for joining us today for another episode of grandparents raising grandchildren. Nurturing through adversity. I encourage you to share both your challenges and your successes with us. Your story is undoubtedly one someone else needs to hear. Submit your stories to the links provided in the podcast information. Your contributions will enrich upcoming conversations, creating a more supportive community in which we can learn and grow together. Were you that kid that hated sports and were teased because of it, pushed and prodded to be more athletic and you did just the opposite?

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Or were you the kid that was very athletic and you found yourself pleasing your parents, maybe even killing yourself to be the best on the team? Well, get ready next week for an inspiring episode as we sit down with Michael Huber, a former corporate executive who made a bold leap in the world of sports psychology after nearly 20 years in the business.

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Michael's journey was fueled by his own recovery from gambling addiction, shaped by the dysfunction he observed as a sports parent and volunteer coach. In this candid conversation, Michael will share his mission to equip young athletes and their families with the essential tools to thrive in today's increasingly challenging and often toxic youth sports environment. His insights promise to shed light on the pressures young athletes face and how we can foster a healthier, more supportive atmosphere for them to flourish. Don't miss this opportunity to learn from Michael's experiences and wisdom as we explore how we can all contribute to a more positive sports culture. I was a young mother once, facing life's battles alone, raising my children well, if you've been there, you know what I'm talking about. And if you haven't, just imagine doing that only to find yourself, years later, supporting your grandchild through a journey of gender identity and family estrangement. Picture the child you once knew and loved, now struggling with the pain of rejection and societal pressure, and you're the only beacon of hope in their turbulent world. How do you break through years of misunderstandings and weave a new tapestry of acceptance and love? Stay tuned for next week's episode, raising a transgender grandchild. Grandmotherhood redefined thank you for tuning in to grandparents, raising grandchildren, nurturing through adversity. Remember, you are not alone. Together, we can find strength and hope in the face of adversity.

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Peace be with you, and I pray that you find some time this week to listen to your inner wisdom amongst the noise and the pandemonium of this world.